00015 NUNAVUT IMPACT REVIEW BOARD TECHNICAL MEETING FOR THE MEADOWBANK GOLD PROJECT JUNE 3, 2005 VOLUME 2 LOCATION: BAKER LAKE RECREATION CENTRE BAKER LAKE, NUNAVUT DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00016 1 (RECORD COMMENCED AT 4:30 P.M., JUNE 3, 2005) 2 BILL TILLEMAN: Let's make sure that we 3 have caught everything in the last few days. And there 4 will be another opportunity just before I am done here 5 to ask some questions before we close. 6 What I am suggesting that we do, however, is let me 7 go through the outline that we have put together to make 8 sure we catch everything, and then we will do them one 9 at a time. 10 The first one is the issue was the all-season road, 11 and I will get to that in just a minute, but that is 12 first on my outline to discuss briefly here. 13 The second was the issue of commitments made over 14 the last couple of days. So, first, all-season road, 15 second, commitments. Third, and related to that is what 16 is in the FEIS or what should be in the FEIS as a result 17 of this exercise . Those two are related, and I will 18 explain the difference in just a minute. 19 Fourth would be final comments or request for 20 clarification on NIRB's original outline. We have 21 touched on some of those things but maybe not all of 22 them, and certainly not all of them in the depth that, 23 perhaps, we could. 24 And then last thing is if there were any -- and I 25 know a couple of people have come up and asked a 26 question about the engineering session. So, first, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00017 1 all-season road; second, commitments; third, FEIS and 2 contents from these two days; fourth, final request for 3 clarification; and, fifth, carryover from the engineers' 4 meeting today. Is there anything else? 5 Let's talk about the outline. Anything else that 6 should be on that outline that we missed before we close 7 this technical meeting? No. 8 Then the first one is the all-season road, its 9 potential impacts and its potential inclusion in the 10 NIRB review. Let's offer, as a resolution, that request 11 by the staff which we will carry to the Board tomorrow 12 that all parties, will, if you wish to speak to that 13 next week. That's a proposed resolution. Any comments? 14 Norm? 15 NORM CAVANAGH: Could you repeat the 16 resolution, please? 17 BILL TILLEMAN: I didn't mean resolution in 18 the sense of a corporate motion. We said that the 19 parties will speak to this at the prehearing conference, 20 if you wish, and so you may wish to -- and since you 21 have raised it, it is interesting and I am glad you 22 grabbed the mic first, it might be something that you 23 could actually table with the Board next week, and then 24 if anyone else, the proponent or anyone else, KivIA or 25 anyone wished to comment on that, they could comment on 26 it and tell the Board what they think the Board should DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00018 1 do, and then the Board would, following the prehearing 2 conference, write its decision on however it felt it 3 should resolve that. 4 NORM CAVANAGH: We have no problem with the 5 resolution that you have suggested. We do not have 6 instructions at this point to bring a motion next week, 7 but we will have instructions by Monday. 8 JOHN DONIHEE: Thanks, Bill. I guess if 9 DIAND doesn't give instructions, we would prefer to see 10 the issue resolved before the end of the prehearing 11 conference. From our perspective, I think the best 12 approach since, as you have pointed out, DIAND raised it 13 or it has been an issue that they have certainly carried 14 forward that, presuming instructions, best if they put 15 it in front of the Board. We are happy to reply, but 16 failing them getting instructions, I think that we want 17 to see the matter resolved. 18 But the question that arises, I guess, is the 19 prehearing conference is four days and three places, 20 and, you know, we are going to deal with this in front 21 of the Board, I expect counsel will want the opportunity 22 to know which day and how to prepare so we can get 23 instructions and make sure that, you know, whatever we 24 present is -- meets with our client's favour. 25 So I guess my only point really is just saying we 26 will deal with it during the prehearing conference is DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00019 1 still a little bit vague in terms of timing and that 2 sort of thing. 3 CRAIG GOODINGS: Just a sec, Bill. I 4 understand we want to be ready, and we know you don't 5 want to bring it up to the Board in every community 6 because we want some resolution, but it should 7 definitely be brought up while we are in Baker Lake, so 8 on the Monday or Tuesday, I think. 9 BILL TILLEMAN: That's exactly what we just 10 said to ourself, but I was just waiting for DIAND to -- 11 in case they wanted to reply to that. So it seems 12 logical to the staff that the Board would want to hear 13 about it here, the community would want to hear about it 14 here. You know, earlier than later is always a good 15 theme so people could think about it over this next 16 several days, if they had to, and then close. So that 17 seems logical to us. 18 KIMBERLEY GILSON: KIA would support that. I 19 am going to be in the community Monday and Tuesday but 20 not able to make the Chesterfield and Rankin, and we 21 certainly have an interest in the motion. 22 BILL TILLEMAN: Well, Norm? 23 NORM CAVANAGH: The only comment I was 24 going to make is we don't have a problem whenever it 25 comes up, and we understand Mr. Donihee's concern that 26 he doesn't want it sort of sprung on him, he wants a DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00020 1 chance to know what it is that is coming up. But I 2 guess if everybody is going to cooperate next week, we 3 can probably deal with that by consent, subject to the 4 Board, of course. 5 BILL TILLEMAN: So I didn't hear your last 6 part, so what would be subject to consent? 7 NORM CAVANAGH: Well, if I do get 8 instructions to bring a motion, then I could talk to all 9 counsel involved and say I propose to do this this 10 afternoon, and if everybody says fine. 11 BILL TILLEMAN: Well, why don't we leave it 12 in counsels' hands with the caveat, though, that I am 13 quite sure, and she is my boss and she said Baker Lake, 14 so do it in Baker Lake is going to be the answer, so 15 call your clients over the weekend. You know, we have 16 only got a couple of days, and we are there already. 17 Okay? 18 So any further comments on that? So we look 19 forward to your arguments, and then the Board will, I 20 guarantee you they are going to turn their mind to it 21 and they will decide what they want to do. And 22 typically after the hearing, the Board promises a 23 decision within 30 days, so I would expect that it holds 24 true to its practice that 30 days after next Friday you 25 will have the decision. Anything else on that one? 26 So the second one, then, is commitments made over DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00021 1 the last few days, and that's the second item on this 2 countdown. And as a proposed resolution to that, and we 3 have summarized this at lunch, but it would be that NIRB 4 would work with the proponent staff over the supper hour 5 from 5 to 7 and do their best to come up with a 6 consensus, and then that that would be brought back to 7 this hall at 7 o'clock tonight, and that will get up on 8 the screen. We will put it on the screen, we will 9 review it on the screen, we will discuss it and come to 10 then the next best list which is hopefully an ultimate 11 draft, and then -- let me ask Stephanie if this is okay. 12 Okay. 13 So the answer, so the next part of it was that 14 following tonight's meeting, the NIRB staff will put 15 together a penultimate list and fax it out to your 16 normal work. So any of you that want it at a specific 17 fax number, please come and give that number to NIRB 18 staff right now, otherwise it will go to your 19 distribution list number tomorrow. So you will get the 20 penultimate tomorrow, and NIRB staff has asked that you 21 have that back to the NIRB staff by Sunday night. 5 22 o'clock Sunday. So any comments on it, 5 o'clock 23 Sunday? 24 And then we will deal with it Monday morning 25 however best we will, I'm not sure how many points of 26 disagreement there will be, but let's jump off the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00022 1 bridge when we get there. 2 Carl? 3 CARL McLEAN: Can we have until 8 o'clock 4 eastern Sunday. Because we talked about when we were 5 going to meet to discuss, and it was Sunday evening. 6 Probably 7 o'clock Sunday evening we are getting 7 together to talk about the list. 8 All we need to do is let you know whether we think 9 anything is missing, which is one hour less. 10 BILL TILLEMAN: 7 local time, this time, so 11 that's yes. 12 CARL McLEAN: Okay. Thank you. 13 BILL TILLEMAN: Let's move onto -- 14 ROBYN ABERNETHY-GILLIS: Can I just ask where are 15 you guys located in town? Where should I fax you? 16 STEPHANIE BRISCOE: We are at the Nunamiut 17 Lodge. 18 NORM CAVANAGH: Just to clarify that time 19 was 7 o'clock your time here, right? 20 KARLETTE TUNALEY: You can just fax it 21 attention to Karlette. 22 BILL TILLEMAN: Yes, we will give on the 23 cover sheet tomorrow morning when we fax it out, NIRB 24 will give any instructions on that cover sheet, where to 25 fax and so on. 26 Third issue, what is in the Final EIS? Well, to DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00023 1 some extent we just talked about it. And there are a 2 couple of thoughts that the staff just talked about a 3 few minutes ago. Number 1, we would expect that the 4 commitments that were made up on the screen will be 5 followed through, in any event. 6 A lot of things were stated, this is new 7 information, we are all trying to absorb it. But if the 8 proponent said it will do this or it will do that in a 9 certain sector of the impact assessment, then the Board 10 -- then the staff would expect that it should be done. 11 Now, the second thing is is that this list will be 12 far more specific that you will get tomorrow, obviously, 13 and may be different. And so I would think that the 14 list you get tomorrow is what you would focus on. And 15 then third, more important to that is the Board has to 16 accept it. So usually by consent, it is my experience 17 that the Board would accept it, but I always have to 18 hold out they are the decision makers, not us. So for 19 what really is in the Final EIS, you need to wait until 20 you hear the decision 30 days from next Friday. 21 Next, we still have -- 22 CARL McLEAN: Bill, can I just -- 23 BILL TILLEMAN: Sure, Carl. 24 CARL McLEAN: I made -- this is just a 25 comment, and it is up to the Board in the end, but there 26 is a lot of information that we haven't seen yet, and DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00024 1 that's what this list is about that is trying to address 2 that missing information. I'm not sure how much of it 3 is available or is going to be available now. But the 4 suggestion I made earlier in the week, and I think it 5 was agreed to that -- by the proponent, that they 6 provide as such as they can now, rather than wait for 7 the Final EIS. 8 Just another suggestion is, and I don't know how 9 the other agencies feel though, I wonder if there is 10 going to be another need to have another exchange of 11 technical issues between everybody before we get to the 12 Final EIS because there is a lot of information that we 13 haven't seen yet, just I'm not sure whether that is 14 necessary or not. 15 BILL TILLEMAN: Okay. And so I would -- on 16 the last point first, which is one of the nine things 17 you are going to speak to next week is special 18 procedures for the final hearing. I can't remember 19 which one it was, but so you may just make that argument 20 to the Board under 5 or 6 or 7 or whatever it was, 21 number 9, that shows how much I know. 22 And then the other parties will argue the same or 23 differently or whatever. So it is something that you 24 can tell the Board for next week. 25 The first part of your question was the new 26 information, and I would think now it is DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00025 1 self-correcting, I think you would probably do it 2 anyway. What I don't know yet is I haven't seen this 3 list that Mr. Donihee and others are working on, so let 4 me look at it, and then part of that might be 5 self-explanatory. 6 So the next issue, number 4, was final comments or 7 request for clarification. Now I have five or six 8 things here, six, and some of these have been touched 9 upon already today. But I thought I would go through 10 the list, since it was part of the agenda, and just see 11 if anyone here had final questions, quick as it might 12 need to be, for clarification. 13 First of all, on cumulative effects, as I 14 understood the position of the company, they have hired 15 Hagmen (phonetic), and he will be helping them with that 16 product, and so it is kind of -- was there anything else 17 about -- that was on my list, so was there anything else 18 that you would like to ask them about cumulative effects 19 from any of the impact assessment categories quickly to 20 clarify at this point in time? It doesn't look like it, 21 okay. 22 Yes, DIAND? 23 MARK WATSON: Just to make sure that the 24 cumulative effects stuff meshes nicely what the socio-ec 25 side. 26 BILL TILLEMAN: Second one, wildlife, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00026 1 vegetation, again, we talked about a little bit of all 2 of that earlier -- actually the engineering side of this 3 wouldn't have seen this, and that's maybe the benefit of 4 going through these again. 5 Anything on wildlife, vegetation that the parties 6 would like to request clarification from the proponent 7 now of the technical nature that could be corrected in 8 the FEIS? Mike? 9 MIKE ATKINSON: Yeah, it is kind of related 10 to cumulative effects and wildlife. I just wanted to 11 make sure that the regional study area for the 12 cumulative effects on caribou was appropriate. 13 CRAIG GOODINGS: Pardon? 14 MIKE ATKINSON: I wanted to make sure the 15 regional study area for the cumulative impacts on 16 caribou was appropriate. I believe that last time it 17 finished at the Nunavut border, not recognizing that the 18 particular herds might migrate into Manitoba and 19 Saskatchewan. 20 MARTIN GEBAUER: Yeah, I think we talked 21 about this during our session, and we are going to 22 include the southern ranges of the herds in Northern 23 Saskatchewan and Northern Manitoba. 24 BILL TILLEMAN: KIA? No? Wildlife, you 25 are good. Any of the other parties? Ramli? Good. 26 Steve? Okay. Then the next one is archaeology. Any DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00027 1 questions? Comments? Carolanne? 2 CAROLANNE INGLIS: I just want to confirm that 3 archaeological studies are being done for the 4 all-weather road selection? 5 CRAIG GOODINGS: Yes. 6 BILL TILLEMAN: Then the next one is 7 traditional knowledge, TK. Comments? Concerns? Okay. 8 And then the next one I have is our management plans, we 9 have talked a little bit about them then again. Last 10 opportunity for questions, comments, concerns on 11 management plans. Yes, Colette? 12 COLETTE SPAGNUOLO: It is more of a comment 13 than anything. In the Draft EIS, it states that 14 Cumberland based their hazardous material management and 15 spill contingency plan looking at your fuel tanks on the 16 1994 CCME Environmental Code of Practice for 17 above-ground storage tanks, and we would recommend that 18 you look at the 2003 guidance from CCME on that as well. 19 Environment Canada is going to be updating our fuel 20 storage regulations, and they are based on the 2003 21 guidance, rather than the 1994. 22 CRAIG GOODINGS: I had a question about your 23 comment then. Is that the current law, then, we have 24 used the wrong regulations, or is that something that's 25 coming up? 26 COLETTE SPAGNUOLO: That's something that is DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00028 1 coming up. It is proposed to be in force for this fall. 2 CRAIG GOODINGS: Okay. Thanks. 3 BILL TILLEMAN: Okay. Any other comments, 4 management plans? Mike? 5 MIKE ATKINSON: Yeah, just in the hazardous 6 material management plan, our CGS department had queries 7 or wanted more information about explosives storage in 8 Baker Lake. 9 CRAIG GOODINGS: I think we can probably 10 answer that now. Guys, do you have the answers to that? 11 Where we are going to put the explosives in Baker Lake? 12 If you don't have an answer, just say so, but do you? 13 BRAD THIELE: Yeah, the bulk explosives 14 as such for in Baker Lake are only the boosters and 15 caps. We -- and we don't consider the ammonium nitrate 16 an explosive, to clarify it, but there is a powder 17 magazine laid out in our proposal to the Hamlet and the 18 location, isolated in about two, two and a half 19 kilometres east of town. 20 We have plans with it on, it is the same location 21 that's been submitted to the Hamlet for a couple of 22 years now. 23 It is a secure compound fenced with nationally 24 certified power magazine. 25 MIKE ATKINSON: Is that all detailed in the 26 EIS? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00029 1 BRAD THIELE: As far as I know it is in 2 the EIS. The layout of the laydown area as such, the 3 access road has been adjusted since, based on 4 geotechnical sampling. So the actual storage, dry 5 storage pads are moved slightly, but the actual capped 6 magazine is in the same place. 7 BILL TILLEMAN: Thanks, Brad. And I should 8 have asked you to introduce yourself just for Tara at 9 the back of the room when you do give an answer. 10 So did that help you, Mike? So they will mix the 11 AN with the fuel oil on site, I take it, not here, 12 that's what's going to happen. 13 Anything else from KIA? DIAND? INAC? Derrick? 14 DERRICK MOGGY: Yeah, I had several 15 comments in there about the No Net Loss Plan, but I 16 believe that's okay, I can sort that out with Fisheries 17 from Cumberland there just to finalize that thing, is 18 that -- 19 BILL TILLEMAN: Since you grabbed the mic 20 on the No Net Loss let's, if you don't mind answering 21 one question from the staff, here is Steve. 22 STEPHEN LINES: I saw on the No Net Loss 23 Plan there was mention of potential offsite 24 compensation, and I have heard some talk on other 25 projects, but I don't know if it has ever been done 26 before. I was wondering what DFO's position was on the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00030 1 offsite compensation. 2 DERRICK MOGGY: Offsite compensation 3 basically is just if we can't adequately compensate 4 right onsite, basically the proposal that they have 5 right now is to restore or add to some of the dikes 6 right now, and then there is a few other spots that we 7 are looking at for compensation. 8 Offsite would probably more refer to maybe 9 something completely away from the mine site. Maybe 10 there is something in the local community that could be 11 enhanced there for Fisheries, but we haven't decided on 12 anything along that line. If we did, we would probably 13 go to the community and ask them if there was any kind 14 of -- any area that they might want. 15 STEPHEN LINES: And is that something that 16 DFO usually does at the environmental assessment level, 17 or is something that's usually undertaken later on as a 18 regulatory instrument? 19 DERRICK MOGGY: I think we want to be in a 20 position where conceptually we are happy with that, the 21 actual details of where this rock goes and that rock 22 goes, that's regulatory, but as long as we have kind of 23 a general -- a balance in the habitat loss and gains. 24 BILL TILLEMAN: Anything else on management 25 plans? Yes, Mike? 26 MIKE ATKINSON: This is my final point. We DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00031 1 talked yesterday about several -- how there would be a 2 visual inspection of rock, waste rock to ensure that it 3 went to the appropriate waste dump or was used for 4 appropriate purposes, now, that's fine if you are a 5 geologist. 6 Is it possible to document anywhere the procedures 7 that will be used to correctly identify potentially 8 acid-generating rock? 9 VALERIE BERTRAND: Right now that's going to 10 be based not on visual -- I mean, right now we know what 11 rock types are acid generating and how that can be 12 carried through during operation is that there is 13 probably going to be a block model, and we will know in 14 advance where different rock types go. Is that 15 satisfactory? 16 MIKE ATKINSON: So how would that relate to 17 the person actually picking up the rock and moving it to 18 the appropriate site? 19 BRAD THIELE: As the operations guy here, 20 I will answer that. We would be sorting the material 21 and the waste in the pit by geology, lithologic 22 differences, and it will be by geology mapping on daily 23 bench plan s, and those bench plans are carried by 24 supervision in the pit that control waste ore splits and 25 waste material-type splits. 26 They use flagging, they use visual, they use DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00032 1 blast-hole referencing. Same as you -- same as -- you 2 apply the same diligence as you do at the ore waste 3 splits. Of course if you can't do that, you can't 4 operate. 5 BILL TILLEMAN: Any other questions on 6 management plans? Yes? 7 MARK WATSON: I just had a comment -- 8 BILL TILLEMAN: State your name. 9 MARK WATSON: Mark Watson from EBA. We 10 had some comments in our submission regarding emergency 11 response plan and asked if there would be any -- asked 12 that site-specific information contained the 13 transportation and storage and handling of the cyanide 14 should be detailed a little bit or should be detailed in 15 the Final EIS. 16 CRAIG GOODINGS: Yeah, we will refer it, we 17 will handle it as per regulations so we can detail it. 18 As you guys know, that all these materials are regulated 19 to the ninth degree, so we have no options on how it is 20 packaged, how it is handled, what materials we need on 21 site for spillage and that kind of stuff, and so we will 22 comply with regulations, and we can just repeat those 23 back into the EIS, if you want, if the details are at 24 least a site where you can find them. But we will be 25 following regulations on cyanide and several different 26 international regs that, as you are probably aware of, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00033 1 that we will be following. 2 BILL TILLEMAN: Okay. That's all right. 3 MARK WATSON: I guess if there is 4 anything site-specific that you can add to those that's 5 required when you are citing back those regulations, 6 that's what we are looking for, anything that's, again, 7 site-specific as to the location transfer. 8 CRAIG GOODINGS: No problem. 9 BILL TILLEMAN: Okay. Any other issues not 10 related to the engineering session this morning? 11 Okay. Then let's go to the engineering session 12 this morning, and let's pick up some of the concerns 13 that came out of that. Ramli first. 14 RAMLI HALIM: Okay. Actually, I still 15 have some reservation about the closure plan in terms of 16 the waste rock in the Vault area where actually in the 17 EIS mentions it is not going to be capped. 18 I think at this stage I feel that there will be 19 further study before the closure time and there will be 20 another modelling probably going to determine what kind 21 of capping material you are going to use and what kind 22 of thickness, and by that time probably the geochemistry 23 of the materials will be further developed. And I was 24 wondering whether, at this time, it is a -- we should 25 actually mention that there is still possibility that 26 capping will be required pending to the further studies DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00034 1 during the mine operation. 2 I was wondering is that the same thing, the same 3 kind of reservation by other parties? 4 VALERIE BERTRAND: Right now all the 5 scientific data that we have, we are fairly confident in 6 fact that it is not going to generate acid, considering 7 there is only 10 percent of that rock in that rock pile 8 that is potentially acid generating. Nonetheless, there 9 will be monitoring, certainly, and perhaps one thing 10 that there could be identification of possible alternate 11 scenarios, depending on what the results are, but 12 perhaps you can add to that. 13 BRAD THIELE: Just to point out a common 14 practice at most mines, open cache mines is to have 15 the -- to use the flexibility on your dump to separate 16 materials. So if we are able to distinguish, let's say, 17 and identify a benign rock type, whether it be fault 18 gouger or whatever, that we think is appropriate for cap 19 or some sort of diking or whatever, if there is a 20 material in that pit that is identified in its life as 21 good for capping, we can quite easily segregate it on 22 the dump. It is a fairly common practice. It is the 23 same as often overburden is scraped off and kept 24 separately somewhere in the dump so that if you want to 25 use it such as in reclamation, it is available. You 26 know where it is, keep track of it. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00035 1 And I would expect that in the Vault, we would do 2 that too, that we would be able to be alert, let's say, 3 to identify perhaps a benign mythology that is 4 identifiable and keep it separate. Other than that, 5 there is nothing in the model right now that tells us, 6 identifies a material that we know would necessarily be 7 suitable, but by the same token, the study of all the 8 rock type indicates that we won't need a cap. 9 But that flexibility is there in operation to sort 10 out a material, if we can identify such, and store it 11 separately so it is available for that. 12 VALERIE BERTRAND: I can also add that 13 typically there is going to be more -- there is going to 14 be a requirement to monitor the ARD potential, as you 15 are exploiting your deposit. So that data, as it 16 becomes available, will be plotted into the block model, 17 and should there be trends that develop that allows us 18 to develop a tool to separate, segregate out in advance 19 what is potentially acid generating or not, certainly 20 that would be considered. 21 RAMLI HALIM: Ramli Halim. That is 22 precisely my point, that I think it is very -- too 23 strong of a word to say that is a view not going to cap, 24 because when you say that, we are not going to cap, and 25 that would be the end of the story. But if you are 26 actually going to say that you are going to make DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00036 1 reservation, going to make -- there will be other 2 monitoring in the future is -- and at least you are 3 going to still have that thing open, rather than closed, 4 that it is not going to be capped period. 5 CRAIG GOODINGS: Yeah, I think that -- can I 6 answer this? Generally the whole -- all of our 7 monitoring plans are based to test our predictions, and 8 I think -- I mean, right now currently Golder's 9 predictions indicate there is not going to be a problem 10 from the Vault, and so I don't want to -- I don't put 11 mitigation in place that I don't have any issue to 12 mitigate. However, our monitoring plans are going to be 13 adaptive. Therefore, if the Vault -- and we are going 14 to monitor the runoff from the Vault, so if it turns out 15 that we do have an issue of ARD on the Vault piles, or 16 certain parts of them anyway, we would make that as part 17 of our adaptive management to do as you are asking, to 18 prevent that ARD from being generated. And if the 19 mitigation to do that would be to cap it, then we would 20 put that in our documents. 21 So the quick answer is we don't think we are going 22 to have to cap, there is no reason why we should have to 23 cap based on the good science Golder has done; however, 24 because of adaptive management, we have to leave -- and 25 precautionary principles, we have to leave the outside 26 chance that it may happen. So we will put that in DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00037 1 there. If we have an issue with ARD from Vault, we will 2 fix it. Okay? 3 RAMLI HALIM: Okay. I think as long as 4 you provide those assumption or information in the EIS, 5 that it is not going to be a closed clause that it is 6 going to be no capping, that would be fine with me. 7 CRAIG GOODINGS: We will go -- we will still 8 continue with our no capping, but we will leave it that 9 with adaptive management, we may have to alter that to 10 prevent ARD. 11 RAMLI HALIM: I agree with that one. 12 BILL TILLEMAN: Other questions related to 13 this morning's meeting of the engineering plans? EBA? 14 MARK WATSON: I guess we still have -- I 15 understand there is quite an abundance of stability 16 analysis, open pit slopes and so on, and spoken a bit 17 about that. And so we are looking for that information. 18 It will be among the references, I am sure of it, we 19 will be requesting to look at eventually. 20 CRAIG GOODINGS: Was this in -- this was 21 generated as part of our list of things that we would 22 bring to the hearings. 23 MARK WATSON: Pardon me? 24 CRAIG GOODINGS: What is the list? What is 25 that list called that we are making? Thank you, the 26 death list. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00038 1 MARK WATSON: Yeah, no. 2 CRAIG GOODINGS: The commitment list, our 3 wish list. Is that on there? 4 MARK WATSON: Yeah, it is -- we have 5 asked for the references, and I am sure, we were told 6 this information is in there -- 7 CRAIG GOODINGS: It will be on -- 8 MARK WATSON: I said I wanted an 9 opportunity to speak right to the horse's mouth next 10 week. 11 BILL TILLEMAN: You guys can't -- 12 MARK WATSON: Scott when he is here, 13 so... 14 BILL TILLEMAN: Okay, you can't talk over 15 each other because she can't type that fast. 16 MARK WATSON: Okay, sorry. 17 BILL TILLEMAN: She is almost a genius, but 18 you have to state your name, you have to let the other 19 person finish talking, and then you go and finish 20 talking. So, Mark, any other questions? 21 MARK WATSON: No. 22 BILL TILLEMAN: Luis? 23 LUIS MANZO: Yes, Luis Manzo from KIA. 24 We are just respecting the remodeling of that data to be 25 sent to consultants as a commitment that they speak to 26 each other. So I guess you get into an agreement that DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00039 1 you would provide that information, including the data 2 onto this. 3 WAYNE SAVIGNY: Wayne Savigny. Are you 4 referring to the discussion about geothermal issues just 5 before we broke out this morning? 6 LUIS MANZO: Yes. 7 WAYNE SAVIGNY: Okay. Perhaps I can 8 summarize the context of this question. In our 9 discussions yesterday, there was mention of some 10 concerns about the baseline permafrost conditions, and 11 you might recall discord in how deep the permafrost was. 12 In this morning's session, I brought up a couple of 13 related points that had appeared in the documents 14 provided by intervenors. These documents question the 15 issue of attenuation of climate warming, they questioned 16 the validity of mean annual air temperatures that we 17 were using, so we dealt with those this morning. And as 18 I recall, the following decisions were made: There was 19 general agreement on the attenuation issue that we 20 should not persist with climate warming beyond 100 21 years, that the abundance of science says we will 22 attenuate and thus no need to project beyond 100 years. 23 I think there is a general agreement that we will 24 use a variation in the magnitude of climate warming, so 25 as to provide a broader range of possible 26 climate-warming scenarios within the 100-year period. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00040 1 Finally, regarding the depth of permafrost, it was 2 agreed we would reduce the in situ permafrost depth that 3 we modelled in the order of 400 metres from the current 4 depth, and I believe those were the issues that we 5 committed to do with renewed geothermal modelling effort 6 on the tailings and the waste rock. 7 BILL TILLEMAN: Okay. 8 LUIS MANZO: Yes, thank you. 9 BILL TILLEMAN: Thank you. Any other 10 issues coming out of this morning's engineering meeting? 11 Karlette, do you have anything? 12 KARLETTE TUNALEY: Just a quick question, I 13 think this -- Cumberland tried to address this in 14 conformity, it was a question of ore stockpiles, and if 15 there is a chance for ore being stockpiled, and if the 16 potential for any ARD would be -- there would be 17 potential for ARD there and if it would be mitigated. 18 CRAIG GOODINGS: The residence of the ore 19 stockpile is very short, so we don't expect any ARD 20 generation. Nonetheless, the ore stockpile is within 21 the zone of our contact water containment structures, so 22 any runoff would be collected and put over to the 23 suitable ponds. Do you want to add to that, Val? 24 VALERIE BERTRAND: Yes, I can add. We did 25 incorporate the presence of the other stockpile into our 26 water quality predictions. Note also that the actual DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00041 1 load from it is very small, because the ore stockpile is 2 not very large, but we did incorporate that into the 3 model. 4 BILL TILLEMAN: Steve? 5 STEPHEN LINES: Just, again, I looked for 6 the ore stockpiles on a map, and, again, this is another 7 site facility that I couldn't find and just with the 8 truck facility that I couldn't find. And just with the 9 truck facility or the refueling one, it would be helpful 10 if you could produce maybe another map that would show 11 maybe in more detail where some of these site facilities 12 are, such as the ore stockpile. 13 CRAIG GOODINGS: Yeah. In the response I 14 indicated that this ore stockpile is on our map, I just 15 forgot to label it, is that green dot. And I do explain 16 on the -- one of the responses back to NIRB, it is above 17 the text plant. And so you can locate it on the map, it 18 is on the map, but I have said to you in the Final EIS I 19 will properly label it, and also the power plant just so 20 you guys can see it. 21 STEPHEN LINES: Thank you. 22 BILL TILLEMAN: Any other? Ramli? 23 RAMLI HALIM: Ramli Halim with Acres. I 24 think it was this morning's session, there was 25 discussion that they would like to bring it into bigger 26 volume is about the changes that are made, going to be DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00042 1 proposed or planned by the proponent, and I think there 2 was a consensus that they are going to have a discussion 3 in terms of impact of those changes for the -- in this 4 form, rather than the one dealing just with the 5 engineering portion of it, some would be the 6 socio-economic impacts because changing scheduling from 7 ten years to eight years, something like that. 8 CRAIG GOODINGS: The changes in the 9 feasibility indicated, for the most part, improve the 10 project, as you know, changes our water quality issues. 11 The other -- the other major impacts that come from the 12 mine, the pits, the operation of the plant, that is all 13 the same, and so that hasn't changed. And so those 14 impacts for the wildlife fisheries work will not change. 15 The road does change, and that will have to be 16 brought into the wildlife and fisheries plans and 17 impacts, so there will be additional work done on that. 18 But as far as the overall, everybody keeps calling 19 them changes, I call them improvements to the mine plan. 20 We don't expect the -- there to be any additional major 21 changes that we already haven't accounted for. 22 As far as the life of the mine, going from 10 to 23 8.5, what that does, it allows the mine to be built. So 24 if we -- without able to get it -- the more gold out of 25 the ground in a shorter period of time, there would be 26 no mine. So that would be a larger negative impact, not DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00043 1 to build a mine, I think. 2 So in the sense of employment, yes, there is now 8 3 and a half years versus 10, but that is still better 4 than no years. 5 BRAD THIELE: I would like to point out 6 that the man years of employment has pretty much 7 unchanged. It is more people for less time. 8 BILL TILLEMAN: Any further comments? Any 9 further comments on the engineering session this 10 morning? If not, then let's close the meeting with a 11 couple of final thoughts. 12 First of all, what often finds its way into an 13 agenda for a prehearing conference like next week is 14 whether or not the Board or the staff go on a site 15 visit. It is not uncommon to have the issue come up. 16 It has been brought to our attention this afternoon 17 that there will be a site visit, the company is going to 18 the site. And along with that, if they had a couple of 19 extra seats, it is possible that the staff would want to 20 go along with the company, it is also possible that the 21 Board would, and they are the boss, not me. I would 22 prefer, if anyone goes, it is the staff. 23 So, let's just deal with that one now, and ask if 24 it is okay with Cumberland if any of their staff went 25 with them to the site. And then from there, we will ask 26 the other parties if they have any objections. So that, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00044 1 then, would be the issue I would like to place before 2 all of you, which is if there are any objections to some 3 of the NIRB staff going to the site on Sunday, I guess, 4 not tomorrow. 5 First of all, permission would be needed from the 6 proponent. 7 CRAIG GOODINGS: Yes, I have discussed this 8 with a couple of other intervenors as all. We do have a 9 chopper in camp. The camp is closing right now. There 10 is only a handful of people in there. We are closing 11 for the break-up, and we will start opening up again in 12 July. However, they are up there until the 8th, and I 13 don't think the chopper is all that busy. 14 So what I need to do is call camp, find out when 15 the chopper is coming and going and organize a time for 16 -- it sounds like for you guys Sunday would be the best 17 day. So I can't make a promise that we are going to 18 have the chopper available, but I am going to try to 19 make the chopper available. 20 I am going to basically call up and find out what 21 the schedule is. Right now the staff going in, they are 22 going in overnight, so you don't want to go in with 23 them, unless you want to sleep out there. You are 24 welcome to do that, I guess, if you want. There is 25 pretty good food out there. 26 So we will try to get the NIRB staff, as long as DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00045 1 nobody objects to that, no problem, if we can. But I 2 also like to open that to we have had quite a few of the 3 intervenors out there anyway already. We don't -- 4 haven't replaced everybody here, there is still some 5 guys lingering from many years ago, so but there is 6 others here that haven't been to camp that may also want 7 to go. 8 So what I would like to do is after we break up, as 9 long as it is okay with you, if anybody else is 10 interested in going to camp, just come over here and 11 tell me, providing you are here for the weekend, and 12 then I will make a list of those who might want to go, 13 and I will try to endeavour to get as many as I can out 14 there over the next two days. I can't promise anything, 15 but I think it is good if you guys are able to go to 16 site, and it helps everybody understand the project a 17 bit better. So it would only help everybody, including 18 ourselves, to get you out there. 19 It is open, as we finish, and then no commitments 20 again. I will make a schedule who wants to go, and I 21 will see how many I can get out there over the next two 22 days. 23 BILL TILLEMAN: Thank you, Craig. So the 24 staff have no objections to anyone going. I think it is 25 a good idea, basically. What do you think? 26 I'm now asking the parties about the question of DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00046 1 whether you think the NIRB staff would go along. Any 2 objections? 3 KIMBERLEY GILSON: KIA has no objection. 4 BILL TILLEMAN: DIAND? 5 CARL McLEAN: No objections. 6 BILL TILLEMAN: It won't be me, Carl, I am 7 writing papers or something. Colette, are you okay? 8 COLETTE SPAGNUOLO: No objections. 9 DERRICK MOGGY: DFO has no objections. 10 MIKE ATKINSON: No objections. 11 BILL TILLEMAN: Then two things, Stephanie 12 is about to tell you what's going to happen next with 13 the Board and how the prehearing will proceed, and so 14 on. But I would just like to give the proponent any 15 last word on anything that is wishes to say at the 16 conclusion of the last two days. 17 CRAIG GOODINGS: I think I said at the 18 beginning of this two days ago that I was happy that we 19 are at this stage, and I am still happy, so that's the 20 end of my closure. 21 BILL TILLEMAN: Thank you very much. 22 STEPHANIE BRISCOE: Thanks, Bill. First off I 23 just want to thank everybody for coming and 24 participating in these meetings. I think it is a very 25 worthwhile exercise to try and hash out some of the 26 bigger issues prior to go into the prehearing DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00047 1 conference. 2 Many of these issues are confusing for the educated 3 folks around the table with the university degrees and 4 the master's degrees, and we are using a lot of 5 terminology and acronyms that are very unfamiliar to 6 many people that are going to be coming in the audience, 7 as well as the Board. 8 So one request that I do have is if your 9 presentations are based heavily on a lot of acronyms, 10 that you try and expand those out when you are speaking 11 so that we are very clear on what those acronyms mean. 12 It is beneficial to the Board and the audience, as well 13 as the interpreters. 14 The Board is coming in tonight on the 8:30 flight 15 hopefully, otherwise we are sending charters out to find 16 them. They are going to be meeting tomorrow to go 17 through the file and things that have been happening on 18 the file, the correspondence, revisiting the components 19 of the project, what this project is all about, and 20 that's in preparation for the meeting that is going to 21 be starting here on Monday. 22 So it gives them an opportunity to question the 23 staff on issues that have come up through their 24 investigation of the documents and reading in those 25 materials. So they are coming in tonight, that meeting 26 is tomorrow, and then Sunday is a free day for them, so DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00048 1 they will be out and about in the community and just 2 enjoying a day of rest. 3 I just want to remind everyone that although our 4 interpreters are very, very good, we do have to try and 5 speak slowly so that they are capturing as much of the 6 conversation as possible to do the translation. That is 7 also beneficial for Tara, who is going to be keeping a 8 full record of communications starting on Monday for 9 those four days. So try and identify when you are 10 speaking by name, who you are, and the company you are 11 with, as she needs to document that in the transcript. 12 And I think that's it. 13 I want to thank the staff. Myself, I just want to 14 thank my staff. You have done a great job organizing 15 and doing your work here this week, so thanks very much. 16 And just a reminder that we want to help support 17 the local community, so I think the local cultural 18 centre here, the shopping, Jessie Oonark Centre is open 19 until 5:30, quarter to 6, and let's do our best to 20 support the economics of Baker Lake and buy lots of 21 presents for friends and family back home. So with 22 that, thanks very much. 23 BILL TILLEMAN: See you at 7. 24 STEPHANIE BRISCOE: Oh, and the prehearing 25 starts Monday morning, it is downstairs, hopefully much 26 cooler, and we are kicking off at 10 o'clock, so we DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00049 1 would like to get started right on time. Thanks. 2 CRAIG GOODINGS: And don't forget, those of 3 you who want to see the site, come over here and give me 4 your name, please. 5 WHICH WAS ALL THE EVIDENCE TAKEN AT 5:12 P.M. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00050 1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPT 2 I, TARA LUTZ, hereby certify that the 3 foregoing pages are a true and faithful transcript 4 of the proceedings taken down by me in shorthand and 5 transcribed from my shorthand notes to the best of my 6 skill and ability. 7 Dated at the Hamlet of Baker Lake, Territory 8 of Nunavut, this 4th day of June, A.D. 2005. 9 10 11 12 Tara Lutz 13 Court Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590