00001 NUNAVUT IMPACT REVIEW BOARD PREHEARING CONFERENCE FOR THE MEADOWBANK GOLD PROJECT JUNE 6, 2005 VOLUME 1 LOCATION: BAKER LAKE RECREATION CENTRE BAKER LAKE, NUNAVUT PANEL: Albert Ehaloak Chairperson Peter Paneak Pauloosie Paniloo Lucassie Arragutainaq Mary Avalak Peter Akkikungnaq BOARD STAFF: Bill Tilleman, Q.C. Legal Counsel Stephanie Briscoe Executive Director Stephen Lines Technical Advisor Karlette Tunaley Technical Advisor Carolanne Inglis Hearing Coordinator Gladys Joudrey Manager of Environmental Administration Mary Hunt Interpreter/Translator DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00002 Percy Tutannaq Interpreter/Translator Joe Otokiak Interpreter/Translator John Komak Interpreter/Translator Pat Braden Sound Technician Court Reporter: Tara Lutz DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00003 INDEX PRESENTATION BY CUMBERLAND RESOURCES 242 PRESENTATION BY PROPONENT ON ENGINEERING 40:9 DFO QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON 47:9 ENGINEERING ACRES QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON 48:4 ENGINEERING RESIDENTS QUESTION THE PROPONENT ON 50:23 ENGINEERING NIRB STAFF QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON 55:17 ENGINEERING BOARD MEMBERS QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON 57:10 ENGINEERING PRESENTATION BY PROPONENT ON WATER 59:6 QUALITY KIA QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON WATER 70:18 QUALITY KIA QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON WATER 75:1 QUALITY DFO QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON WATER 77:24 QUALITY ACRES QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON WATER 81:26 QUALITY NIRB STAFF QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON WATER 86:7 QUALITY DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00004 RESIDENT QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON WATER 88:17 QUALITY PRESENTATION BY PROPONENT ON AQUATICS & 92:9 FISHERIES ACRES QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON AQUATICS & 105:6 FISHERIES NIRB STAFF QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON 106:23 AQUATICS & FISHERIES DFO QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON AQUATICS 113:6 & FISHERIES BOARD MEMBERS QUESTION PROPONENT ON 119:25 AQUATICS & FISHERIES RESIDENT QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON AQUATICS 121:3 & FISHERIES PROPONENT PRESENTATION ON WILDLIFE & 126:7 TERRESTRIAL RESIDENTS QUESTION PROPONENT ON WILDLIFE 134:11 & TERRESTRIAL KIA QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON WILDLIFE & 136:15 TERRESTRIAL RESIDENTS QUESTION PROPONENT ON AQUATICS 137:9 & TERRESTRIAL NIRB STAFF QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON 145:24 AQUATICS & TERRESTRIAL BOARD MEMBERS QUESTION PROPONENT ON 147:4 AQUATICS & TERRESTRIAL DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00005 PRESENTATION BY PETER TAPATAI 149:20 RESIDENT QUESTIONS PROPONENT 158:25 PRESENTATION BY KIA AND NTI 169:8 ACRES INTERNATIONAL QUESTIONS NTI AND 181:22 KIA NIRB STAFF QUESTIONS KIA AND NTI 186:22 PRESENTATION BY DEPARTMENT OF FISHERIES 191:10 AND OCEANS NIRB STAFF QUESTIONS DFO 202:15 PRESENTATION BY ACRES INTERNATIONAL 204:11 NIRB STAFF QUESTIONS ACRES INTERNATIONAL 216:22 PRESENTATION BY THE HAMLET OF BAKER LAKE 219:25 COMMENTS BY CUMBERLAND TO HAMLET OF 222:6 BAKER LAKE BOARD MEMBERS QUESTION HAMLET OF BAKER 223:18 LAKE RESIDENT QUESTIONS CUMBERLAND AND DFO 227:12 DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00006 1 (PREHEARING CONFERENCE COMMENCED AT 10:00 A.M., JUNE 6, 2 2005) 3 CHAIRPERSON: Good morning. We will 4 start with an opening prayer. 5 PETER PANEAK: (Opening prayer) 6 CHAIRPERSON: Welcome to the prehearing 7 conference for the Meadowbank Gold Project. 8 My name is Albert Ehaloak, and I am the Acting 9 Chair of the Nunavut Impact Review Board. I have been 10 on the Board for two and a half years, and I was born 11 and raised in Cambridge Bay. 12 We are the Nunavut Impact Review Board, and we are 13 conducting a prehearing conference to address nine 14 issues that we sent to the proponent and all the parties 15 on May 5th, 2005. I will refer to these issues in a 16 moment. 17 At this time, I want to mention NIRB's condolences 18 and sympathy for the Kudloo family. Thomas Kudloo, who 19 was the chairperson of our sister board for ten years, 20 passed away two weeks ago. He will always live in our 21 hearts, and we will rely on ten years of his leadership 22 to guide us in the future. 23 But before we begin, we should let you know that we 24 are having a draw for the door prizes at the end of the 25 meeting, and I will announce the winners sometime before 26 we leave the building. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00007 1 For a belief description of the application, the 2 Meadowbank Gold Project being proposed by Cumberland 3 Resources Limited is for an open-pit gold mine located 4 on Inuit-owned lands approximately 70 kilometres north 5 of the Hamlet of Baker Lake. 6 According to the proponent, Meadowbank is planning 7 to have a 12 to 14-year project life. The project will 8 have a two-year construction period, followed by eight 9 to ten years of mine operation and two years 10 post-closure period. 11 The project life schedule has changed due to the 12 feasibility study, and the three changes from the 13 feasibility are: 36 percent increase in production, 14 closed-loop production, winter road to all-weather 15 access road; therefore, changes to the project schedule 16 are anticipated. The proponent will tell us more about 17 these changes in a few minutes. 18 In attendance with us today are the following Board 19 members -- please note Elizabeth Copeland has declared 20 conflict in participating in these hearings as she is 21 the mayor of Arviat. To the left of I have Lucassie 22 Arragutainaq. 23 LUCASSIE ARRAGUTAINAQ: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I 24 have been with the NIRB Board for the last -- a little 25 over a year now, and I am from Sanikluaq. 26 CHAIRPERSON: Pauloosie Paniloo? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00008 1 PAULOOSIE PANILOO: My name is Pauloosie 2 Paniloo from Clyde River, and since 1999 I have become a 3 member of the Nunavut Impact Review Board. 4 CHAIRPERSON: Peter Paneak? 5 PETER PANEAK: Thank you. My name is 6 Peter Paneak. For four years now I have been a member 7 of the Nunavut Impact Review Board. 8 CHAIRPERSON: Mary Avalak? 9 MARY AVALAK: I am Mary Avalak from 10 Cambridge Bay. I have been on the NIRB Board for the 11 last two years, just over two years as a Board member. 12 Thank you. 13 CHAIRPERSON: And Peter Akkikungnaq? 14 PETER AKKIKUNGNAQ: Thank you. Since 1999 I 15 have become a member of the Nunavut Impact Review Board 16 and up to today. I am from Gjoa Haven. 17 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. And our staff 18 members are Stephanie Briscoe, executive director; 19 Karlette Tunaley, technical advisor; Stephen Lines, 20 technical advisor; Carolanne Inglis, hearing 21 coordinator; Bill Tilleman, legal advisor; Gladys 22 Joudrey, who is not -- oh, she is here, she is our 23 manager of environmental administration. Mary Hunt is 24 our interpreter; Percy Tutannaq is our interpreter; Joe 25 Otokiak, interpreter; John Komak, interpreter; Tara 26 Lutz, our stenographer; Pat Braden, our sound DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00009 1 technician. 2 Official transcripts of the prehearing will be 3 prepared and placed on NIRB's public registry and posted 4 on the FTP site. 5 The method of advertising. The Nunavut Land Claim 6 states that NIRB shall take all necessary steps by way 7 of notice, release of information, scheduling and 8 location of hearings to provide and promote public 9 awareness of participation at hearings. We have tried 10 to do that in the Meadowbank case by notifying all of 11 you by writing and by public advertisement of this 12 prehearing meeting. 13 For your information, we have a copy of all 14 correspondence between NIRB, the proponent and the 15 parties in what we call a public registry. This 16 information is available at the back table, also 17 available on our NIRB -- in our NIRB office in Cambridge 18 Bay by request. Please see Gladys Joudrey at the back 19 table. 20 We are here to conduct this meeting under the 21 authority of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement Article 22 12 Part 5. 23 Briefly, NIRB's work is to assess and evaluate 24 impacts. Its primary objectives are to protect and 25 promote the existing and future well-being of the 26 residents and the communities of the Nunavut Settlement DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00010 1 Area. The purpose of this prehearing meeting is to 2 clarify issues before the final hearing. 3 Now, specifics of NIRB's prehearing history. On 4 September 23rd, 2003, the Board advised the Minister 5 Robert Nault that the Meadowbank Gold Project required a 6 review under either Part 5 or Part 6 of the Nunavut Land 7 Claims Agreement. 8 In reply on December 3rd, 2003, the Honourable 9 Minister Nault replied to us and the ministers of 10 Fisheries and Oceans and Natural Resources Canada agreed 11 to refer the project to NIRB for a Part 5 review of the 12 Meadowbank Gold Project. 13 Since then, NIRB issued EIS guidelines, and a draft 14 EIS was received by NIRB on January 5th, 2005. More 15 recently, on April 8th, 2005, NIRB wrote to the 16 distribution list and set out a prehearing conference 17 for this week, June 6th to 9th. We will, thus, begin 18 visiting the communities of Baker Lake, Chesterfield 19 Inlet and Rankin Inlet. 20 Matters that NIRB wants the distribution list to 21 pay a special attention to are: Please share all written 22 submissions with other parties, this is not the 23 responsibility of NIRB. If NIRB makes information 24 request of parties and, in particular, the proponent, it 25 will do so after this prehearing conference. Make sure 26 you provide all information that you can. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00011 1 The nine issues to be addressed today. Let me 2 stress that we are not here today to approve the 3 project, this is not the final hearing. This is only 4 prehearing or advanced meeting to answer some procedural 5 questions, so the only reason why we are here today is 6 to address the following nine issues. 7 Number 1 is the schedule for the prehearing 8 conference; exchange of information; intervenor 9 identification and registration; the list of issues to 10 be dealt with in the final public hearing and clear 11 statements of issues; technical reports and other 12 documents needed for final public hearing; technical 13 schedule to be followed by parties for completion of 14 reports prior to the final public hearing; the schedule, 15 times and places of the final public hearing; special 16 procedure, if any, to be followed at the final public 17 hearing; any motions that may be needed before the final 18 EIS is filed or the final public hearing commences; and 19 any other matters that may aid in the simplification of 20 the hearing. Example, the segregation of the hearing 21 into different segments, technical hearing versus 22 non-technical community meetings. 23 Now, for a roll call, the parties and citizens to 24 introduce themselves and witnesses, if any. For now we 25 have Cumberland Resources Limited, can you do a roll 26 call of all of your members here? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00012 1 MR. DONIHEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 2 My name is John Donihee, I'm appearing as counsel for 3 Cumberland Resources Limited in this proceeding. 4 We had intended to introduce the full Cumberland 5 team during our presentation in item number 6 on the 6 agenda, but if the Board would prefer us to do it now, I 7 will ask Mr. Goodings to take care of it immediately. 8 What would you prefer, sir? 9 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please, can you please 10 introduce. 11 MR. DONIHEE: We will just proceed then, 12 thank you. 13 TOM MANNIK: I am Tom Mannik. I am 14 working with the environmental and the coordinator for 15 the environment survey. Work that I have done is 16 fisheries, and also intervehicles, I was also their 17 mechanic, and also broke up the -- and I was also 18 committee member for their environmental committee. And 19 also the other work concerning the -- over the 20 environmental is water and also surveying and looking 21 after the bird -- surveys of birds and also surveys on 22 wildlife, on land and by planes, and also surveys on 23 environmental plants, and also a coordinator for the 24 Inuit traditional knowledge. 25 And I am happy that you have all come to Baker 26 Lake, which is the centre of Baker Lake. The lake is DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00013 1 attached to all of Nunavut, is part of all of Nunavut. 2 HATTIE MANNIK: My name is Hattie Mannik. 3 I am a traditional knowledge specialist. I been doing 4 some interviews for Cumberland Resources, interviewing 5 Elders or anybody regarding especially around the 6 Meadowbank area, asking them -- some of the questions 7 that I asked are regarding tent rings, fishing areas, 8 hunting grounds, graves, spiritual significances, among 9 other things. Thank you. 10 JACOB IKINLIK: I am Jacob Ikinlik, a 11 member of the community concerning Meadowbank. I was 12 also one who did log surveys on the wildlife, and I was 13 also one of the members who also helped with making 14 decisions on Cumberland. 15 CRAIG GOODINGS: My name is Craig Goodings 16 from Cumberland Resources. I have been on the project 17 since 1996. I'm the environmental coordinator for the 18 project, and I am glad to be here. Thank you. 19 VALERIE BERTRAND: My name is Valerie 20 Bertrand. I am with Golder Associates working for 21 Cumberland. I am the geochemist for the project in 22 charge of rock quality and effect s on water quality. 23 I have been working on the project since 2000. 24 JOHN CUNNING: Hello. My name is John 25 Cunning. I'm also with Golder Associates. I'm a 26 geotechnical engineer, and I work in the area of DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00014 1 providing services, engineering services related 2 to mining and waste management for the Meadowbank 3 project to Cumberland. 4 RANDY BAKER: My name is Randy Baker. I 5 am with Azimuth Consulting Group, and I have been a 6 consultant to Cumberland Resources since 1997, and I 7 have been responsible for conducting and coordinating 8 environmental studies on the aquatic environment, on 9 water chemistry, sediments, small animals and fish 10 populations in the local area. 11 MARTIN GEBAUER: Hello. My name is Martin 12 Gebauer, I am with Gebauer & Associates. I have been 13 working on the project, I am now on my fourth year 14 looking at all the wildlife and plant issues related to 15 the project. 16 ROY AVAALA: I am Roy Avaala, a member 17 of the community, and also -- I have also worked with 18 archaeological sites. 19 Before I started working for the company, I had 20 worked on historical sites in the Kazan River from 1994 21 to '97. And because I have traditional knowledge on 22 historical sites, I was asked if I could work in 1998 at 23 Meadowbank, so I have been working there on historical 24 archaeological sites. 25 TRAVIS MANNIK: I am Travis Mannik, and I 26 also helped with archaeological sites up at Meadowbank. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00015 1 MARVIN MANNIK: Hi everybody. I am Marvin 2 Mannik, I work with hydrology with Page Burt. 3 KEVIN MARTY: I'm Kevin Marty. I have 4 been working with Cumberland since 2004, and I have been 5 working with Tom on wildlife. I have also done -- 6 assisted with research with fisheries in Cumberland. 7 VICTOR UTATNAQ: I am Victor Utatnaq. I 8 have been working with the -- from 1995, started working 9 with them since they started since 1995. 10 Right now I am working with including environmental 11 and also Tom Kudlik, and you have learned a lot. And so 12 I am encouraging the young people to continue their 13 education, and so we have got to -- as also we want to 14 make sure that our Elders are well respected. And so I 15 am encouraging the youth to continue hard work. A lot 16 of our -- as I think a lot of our family members, elder 17 family members are slowly dying off, so I think we have 18 got to start working a little harder. 19 Thank you for giving me the chance to speak. 20 RAJ ANAND: My name is Raj Anand. I'm 21 with Cumberland Resources as senior engineer looking 22 after the engineering aspects of the project. Thanks. 23 BRAD THIELE: My name is Brad Thiele. 24 I'm the vice-president of development for Meadowbank. I 25 have been involved since 2001 of overseeing the 26 feasibility study and will be responsible for any DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00016 1 further engineering, detailed engineering and then 2 construction. 3 This is my 40th year in mining, either operating or 4 designing mines, and thank you for taking the time to 5 hear us today. 6 JIM KOSKI: I am Jim Koski. I'm 7 construction manager for Cumberland Resources, and I 8 deal with constructibility issues and logistics. Thank 9 you. 10 MICHAEL HAQPI: I am Michael Haqpi. I work 11 in the Cumberland office, and if you want further 12 information, the office of Cumberland is opened every 13 day just across from Nunamiut Lodge. And every time -- 14 when you want further information, you can -- there are 15 pictures and posters up. While you are here, if you 16 want to go and see our office, please feel welcome at 17 any time when we are not meeting. Thank you, 18 CRAIG GOODINGS: We have got two members 19 that aren't here today. Tom? 20 TOM MANNIK: The two, Marcella Utatnaq, 21 who is also working in the environmental up at 22 Meadowbank. She is working up there at this point, and 23 the other one who is not able to make it is Larry 24 Mannik, and he has been working with aquatics and 25 because -- and so I am mentioning them as they are -- as 26 for myself, since -- I have been working in the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00017 1 environmental issues since 1997. Thank you. 2 CRAIG GOODINGS: Thank you. That's all our 3 group. 4 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Nunavut 5 Tunngavik Incorporated? 6 JEANNIE EHALOAK: Hi. My name is Jeannie 7 Ehaloak. I am the environmental coordinator with the 8 Department of Lands and Resources of Nunavut Tunngavik 9 Incorporated based in Cambridge Bay. 10 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Kivalliq Inuit 11 Association? 12 JOE KALUDJAK: Good morning. I am Joe 13 Kaludjak from Rankin Inlet, and vice-president of KIA, 14 and I have been in my position for a year. 15 And our member -- KIA board member from Baker Lake 16 is going to speak. 17 JOE CAMPBELL: Good morning, Joe Campbell, 18 KIA director from Baker Lake, and welcome to everybody. 19 Thank you. 20 LUIS MANZO: My name is Luis Manzo, in 21 charge of the Department of Lands as a director, working 22 for KIA. Thank you. 23 DAVID NINGEONGAN: Good morning. I am David 24 Ningeongan. I am also coordinator for the Lands 25 department. 26 KIMBERLEY GILSON: Good morning. Kimberley DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00018 1 Gilson, legal counsel to Kivalliq Inuit Association. 2 JEFF MARTIN: Jeff Martin, SENES 3 Consultants, we were assisting in the review of 4 documents for KIA. 5 STEVE HARTMAN: Good morning. I'm Steve 6 Hartman with the Kivalliq Inuit Association. I am an 7 environmental officer with the Lands department. 8 DAVID NINGEONGAN: David Ningeongan. One of 9 our members is not here, he is also with us, and he is 10 -- his main work is working with other bodies of... 11 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 12 Environment, Government of Nunavut? 13 MIKE HUGHSON: Mike Hughson from the 14 Government of Nunavut. 15 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 16 Indian and Northern Affairs? 17 BILL TILLEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 18 I'm not speaking on their behalf, but they did call this 19 morning and sent an e-mail and a note that they had a 20 weather problem from Iqaluit to here, and they had hoped 21 to be able to leave around 9 o'clock their time today, 22 so they just advised if we could advise that they will 23 be late, but they will be there. We can introduce them 24 when they get here. 25 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 26 Fisheries and Oceans? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00019 1 DERRICK MOGGY: Hi. My name is Derrick 2 Moggy, I'm with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. 3 I'm a habitat management biologist working out of 4 Iqaluit. 5 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Natural 6 Resources Canada? Hamlet of Baker Lake? 7 TARA FESYK: My name is Tara Fesyk. I'm 8 the economic development officer. 9 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Acres 10 International? 11 RAMLI HALIM: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. 12 My name is Ramli Halim. I'm the senior geotechnical 13 engineer with Acres International in Niagara Falls, and 14 I am currently working in the Manitoba office at the 15 moment. In the Meadowbank project, I work as an 16 independent consultant for the Nunavut Impact Review 17 Board. 18 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Local residents 19 and Elders? 20 SIMON TOOKOOME: I am Simon Tookoome. I was 21 born near Gjoa Haven. I don't -- I am not employed. 22 I'm just a carver and artist, and I used to work. And 23 at this point I am concerning cadets, and I'm also a 24 J.P. in town. And I am here, I also -- to inform you, I 25 always have drawings available. I don't have that many 26 carvings available at this point. And. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00020 1 So my main concern is up at Meadowbank as the 2 lake has -- the lakes there have some of the best fish 3 in the area, and at this point it seems there aren't as 4 many as -- those are the main concerns that I have, 5 thank you. 6 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other local 7 residents? 8 ORIN DUREY: Orin Durey of Baker Lake. 9 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Nobody else is 10 going to come up? Go ahead. 11 MIKE ALEIK: Hello. Good morning. My 12 name is Mike Aleik. I am from this town, most people 13 know in Baker Lake. I don't know why there is a lot of 14 empty seats here. There is a lot of people in town, 15 more than maybe a thousand. 16 And I was interested on behalf of Cumberland 17 Resources, maybe you have seen this? 18 CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me. Excuse me. 19 MIKE ALEIK: It came from the Hamlet. 20 You have probably seen it. It was -- 21 CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me. All we are 22 doing right now is -- 23 MIKE ALEIK: In January it came from the 24 Hamlet, something about Cumberland. My address is that 25 I seen in the newspaper something about Cumberland 26 Resources, what they will do up in Meadowbank Lake in DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00021 1 the future, right, that's right? 2 My concern is that before you address anything to 3 NTI, Nunavut -- 4 CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me. We are going to 5 get into concerns later on. All we want to do right now 6 is just give your names and where you are from. 7 MIKE ALEIK: Anyway, I have this address 8 right now because I won't be long. Well, I guess I have 9 to be cut off here for now? 10 CHAIRPERSON: Yes. All we are doing 11 right now is we want your name and where you are from, 12 and then we are going to do concerns later. 13 MIKE ALEIK: I think I should try and 14 welcome people in to town. 15 I don't think I should be told what I have in my 16 mind, you know. I don't think that should be the case. 17 I am from this town, so I think I should feel 18 comfortable. I don't think I should be told by any 19 committee what I have in my mind. I think I am the one 20 who should speak it out. 21 CHAIRPERSON: Yes. 22 MIKE ALEIK: Totally and freely. 23 CHAIRPERSON: And we do want to hear your 24 concerns. 25 MIKE ALEIK: Anyway, I will come in 26 about five, ten minutes. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00022 1 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. All we want to 2 do is get your names and where you are from. You are 3 local. We do want to hear your concerns, concerns are 4 good to speak out. But right now all we are doing is 5 introduction of everybody in this room, so we get to 6 know, kind of visualize who is from what company and 7 whatnot. 8 Thank you. If there is no other local residents 9 going to come up and speak? Just your name. Thank you. 10 NANCY ANGATAJUAK: Nancy Angatajuak, I'm the 11 local resident here in Baker Lake. 12 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 13 DENNIS IQQAAT: Good morning. I am Dennis 14 Iqqaat, I am a local resident from Baker Lake. Thank 15 you. 16 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other local 17 residents? Thank you. 18 DOROTHY IQQAAT: Dorothy Iqqaat from Baker 19 Lake. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Can the parties 21 and observers please sign up front with Gladys if you 22 haven't done so already. 23 Now, for the procedure. The procedures for this 24 prehearing conference will be different from the actual 25 hearing. For today, NIRB would like the parties, as 26 listed above, to give us a brief response to the nine DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00023 1 issues I listed above. Please keep your comments to 30 2 minutes or less, though we will give more time for the 3 proponent. 4 Before I turn it over to Meadowbank, we will have a 5 ten-minute break. 6 (BRIEF RECESS) 7 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, everybody. We 8 can get started again. 9 Before I turn it over to Cumberland Resources, Pat 10 Braden, our sound technician, has a couple of things to 11 say. 12 PAT BRADEN: I just wanted to ask you to 13 try and get as directly to your microphone as you can. 14 Usually about four to six inches is really good. 15 If you start to hear the microphone do something 16 like that, it starts to clamp down. Turning to the side 17 and stuff, obviously it goes away pretty quickly, and 18 the sound doesn't -- if you start to hear a ringing, 19 that's because I am turning your microphone up and it is 20 starting to -- and the air sticks in here like a tin 21 can. And it helps the interpreters, as well as getting 22 your message across. And there is usually lots of -- I 23 tried to leave enough cable so you can move it around. 24 So just take your time and try to get, like I say, about 25 four or six inches from the mic. Thanks. 26 CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Pat, and I will DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00024 1 turn it over to the proponent. 2 PRESENTATION BY CUMBERLAND RESOURCES 3 CRAIG GOODINGS: We are now to present our 4 presentations. I will go to the podium then. 5 Hello, and thank you. We are pleased to be here at 6 this NIRB hearing, at this NIRB preconference hearing, 7 and we are very excited about the Meadowbank project and 8 happy that it is moving along to these various 9 regulatory phases. 10 My presentation today will take you through the 11 realities of the project and with some specific on the 12 socio-economic and traditional knowledge and 13 archaeology, and then I will hand over the microphone to 14 the other specialists that did the various other 15 scientific studies. 16 So to start with, I would like to give you, the 17 Board, some background on Cumberland Resources, the 18 company itself. We are a publicly listed company on the 19 Toronto Stock Exchange and the American Exchange. We 20 have 100 percent ownership of the Meadowbank Gold 21 Project, and we also have 22 percent interest in the 22 Meliadine project over in Rankin Inlet. We have working 23 capital as of January 1st, 2005 of 37 million. And the 24 company is focussed on developing the Meadowbank Gold 25 Project. 26 Before I begin the details of the gold project, I DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00025 1 thought I must just give you some overview of what gold 2 is. It is a rare and precious metal. It is an 3 excellent conductor of electricity and never corrodes or 4 rusts. 5 Gold comes from two sources, primarily from panning 6 in the streams, which is -- would be on your right. 7 This would be panning for gold, and the other way, the 8 more common way is in the rocks, and this is what -- 9 this is actually a core from Meadowbank, and you can see 10 the gold in the rocks. 11 Most of the gold at Meadowbank is invisible, you 12 cannot see it. The way to get this gold out, obviously, 13 is to crush this rock to a powder, and that is the 14 process we will be using at the Meadowbank site. 15 What is it used for? Well, there is a gold nugget, 16 that would be what it looks like when it comes out the 17 mine. It is used for money, jewelry and industrial 18 uses, such as teeth, and in space and also in 19 electronics. 20 So a little bit of an overview now, we will move 21 into the project itself. I hope you can see that. Is 22 that too light, too bright for the screen? No? Is 23 everybody okay? 24 So this is the Meadowbank Gold Project. You can 25 see it is about 70 kilometres north of where we are 26 right now as the crow flies. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00026 1 The other relationship to the other mines in the 2 area, all the other mines in Nunavut are now closed. 3 The Ekati and the Diavik mines are just on the edge of 4 the Nunavut Land Claim area. But the Lupin, Polaris, 5 Nanisivik, they have all closed now. 6 This story of Meadowbank is one of success, a lot 7 of hard work by everybody here, including everybody on 8 this table and the table behind. We acquired the 9 property in 1995 where it had 2,000 ounces of gold in 10 it. And through a lot of hard work and $39 million in 11 spending, we will be able to increase the resource up to 12 a mineable resource of 3.8 million ounces, of which we 13 can recover 3.2 million ounces. This makes the 14 Meadowbank project one of the largest pure gold open-pit 15 reserves in Canada. And the good news is, for you guys, 16 that it is on surface land owned by the KIA and mineral 17 held by the NTI and the federal government. 18 This is just an overview of the actual project 19 site. The claims shaded to the north are NTI Crown land 20 or NTI resources, and the lower claims in the south are 21 grandfathered leases. But the whole project is on NTI 22 -- is on IOL land. 23 As I mentioned, the project is 70 kilometres north 24 of Baker Lake. It is proposed to be an open-pit gold 25 operation. We are in the process of permitting. Once 26 the permitting is complete and provided everything works DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00027 1 out, we will plan a two-year construction schedule of 2 then which the mine will operate for about 8.3 years. 3 It will produce 315 ounces of gold per year, and it will 4 employ 350 operation employees, and that being there 5 will be 250 people on site and 100 people out on 6 rotation. The total project cost to build, 300 million 7 Canadian. 8 Some of the economic benefits for Nunavut. During 9 the construction phase, we expect to get up to 75 local 10 jobs, the other jobs around the construction will 11 include finance, leasing, insurance, technical, 12 government, transportation, warehousing. On average, 13 for every one job we create at the mine, there will be 14 two more jobs created in Nunavut, according to the 15 Statistics Canada modelling. 16 The significance of the initial expenditure of $300 17 million dollars in Nunavut will raise the gross product 18 for Nunavut -- domestic product of Nunavut 7 to 8 19 percent, and that will be a significant jump in the 20 revenues for the government during the construction 21 phase and then also, in addition, they will get large 22 fiscal benefits from the tax. So this is a very 23 important input to the Government of Nunavut, Nunavut as 24 a whole, and the Kivalliq region. 25 During operations, we expect to have up to 70 26 full-time employees over the 8. year life, that's local DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00028 1 employment. We expect to generate, pay $30 million 2 dollars in wages and spend 200 million over the 8.3 3 years. 4 If all the employment were to come to Baker Lake, 5 that would give a 35 percent increase in full-time 6 employment for Baker Lake. It will increase the average 7 income of full-time people by 20 percent. And in a 8 general case, the -- it would offer business 9 opportunities to contractors and suppliers in Baker 10 Lake, Nunavut and the surrounding region. These are 11 considered high magnitude, positive and long term. 12 Overview of the project now. You can see we are in 13 Baker Lake, we are proposing overland route to access 14 the mine site, which is up here. And we will take you 15 up to the mine now and give you a bird's eye view of 16 what the project looks like. 17 Here we have -- if you were to fly in today, you 18 would see very similar to this. You wouldn't see the 19 red lines, obviously, but you would see -- this is 20 actual photography of the land. The red represents 21 where the gold is to be found. And you can see right 22 here obviously that some of it is on the land, and some 23 of it extends into the water. 24 Now, of course, to build -- to access the gold 25 under the water, dikes will have to be built and the 26 lakes will have to be drained. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00029 1 Quick overview of how the process will -- the 2 proposed mining process. The first year we will start a 3 starter pit on the land. This will generate revenues 4 and also material to build the airstrip and the plant 5 site. 6 To get the gold under the water here, we are going 7 to have to put dikes in. These are similar kind of 8 dikes you would see -- these are standard dikes 9 impermeable to keep the water out. Basically the water 10 stays over here, and the pit should be over here. 11 CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me. Can you slow 12 down so the translators can keep up for you? 13 CRAIG GOODINGS: Sorry. I will stick that 14 right here. 15 So these are sort of the typical cross section of 16 the dikes, they are very similar to the dikes they put 17 in at Diavik. This is actually a photograph of Diavik. 18 This is the dike here, it will be put into the lake, and 19 then they were able to drain the water out of the lake. 20 This will be a very similar process that we will be 21 using. The difference will be our dikes won't be as 22 deep as the Diavik dikes. 23 So we will put our dikes in the lakes here and 24 here, and the water will be then -- before we do that, 25 of course, we will capture the fish, move the fish, and 26 then drain the water out of the lakes. This will then DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00030 1 allow us to begin open pitting under the lakes, and this 2 will just take it through the various years of 3 sequencing. 4 As we move out, more dikes to get the other gold 5 deposit here and finally what it would look like on 6 final, with the gold is out of the ground. Then on 7 closure the dikes will be breached and the pits will be 8 allowed to food. And when the water is suitable -- 9 actually, the dikes would be allowed to fill, and then 10 when the water is suitable, the dikes will be breached 11 and allow the open environment to come into the area. 12 So this conceptually is what this will look like on 13 closure. All the buildings are gone, what is left 14 behind are the dikes and the various infrastructure. 15 This is the waste pile up here, the tailings pond up 16 here. This used to be a lake, now it will be dry land. 17 The other deposit at the Vault, which is the 18 northern deposit 7 kilometres north of that main 19 features similar to the southern deposit. It extends 20 partly on the land and under the water. To get that, we 21 are going to have to open pit, same difference, drain 22 the lake, work the gold out and then flood the area on 23 completion. 24 What happens when the mining is finished. Here is 25 a couple scenarios of a mine, of a pit being flooded. 26 This is an open-pit mine up in BC. Here the water is DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00031 1 being let into the mine. We won't do it similar to 2 this, but at closure, the lakes are -- the water will be 3 good quality, and you will still be able to fish no 4 problem. 5 To get the gold out of the ground, I mentioned to 6 you we have to bring all the rock in from the open pits, 7 dumps it into the mill, and it goes through a series of 8 crushing. Big rock to start with, and eventually in the 9 end it ends up as a powder where we separate the gold 10 out of it. 11 This is a conventional milling process standard 12 throughout the industry. You will notice the cyanide, 13 it is added and then destroyed before release to the 14 tailings pond. 15 Well, this slide here, I will just put it all up. 16 I'll tell you the history of this slide. Up until 17 October of last year, everybody at Cumberland was very, 18 very happy with how things were going with the mine 19 process. We knew we had the gold and we now how to 20 build it. But when we started to estimate the costs, at 21 the same time coincidentally the cost of steel started 22 to go up and the price of fuel started to go up. This 23 caused us to rethink the mine plan to the point where we 24 weren't sure whether it would be economical anymore. 25 However, instead of giving up, Cumberland brought 26 out their pencils and worked hard over the last year DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00032 1 trying to figure out ways to improve the economics, and 2 we are glad to say we were successful in doing that. As 3 a result, one of the things that we identified that 4 would help improve the economics the most would be what 5 to do with all these materials we bring in. 6 We are going to bring in five barges in a year for 7 material of the mine. The question is what do we do 8 with all of this material? In the old plan, all of this 9 would have been left on the ground until the wintertime, 10 and then it would have been all moved up to site. The 11 way to improve the economics was instead of leaving most 12 of it on the ground would be to take it straight up, 13 take it straight up to camp. 14 So here we have the sketch of the proposed 15 all-weather road, which, of course, is an all-land 16 process. And you can see the other blue line is the 17 winter road that's used now by Peter Tapatai to bring 18 our equipment up. Originally that was going to be our 19 plan for the mine, however the economics indicated that 20 we needed to go this route. 21 There is going to be five bridge crossings on the 22 route, and we know that we can build this road safely 23 and environmentally soundly as long as we use best 24 practices. 25 Why did we do this? Well, permanent road access -- 26 well, those are some facts. There would be five bridge DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00033 1 crossings, and it would cost about $19.7 million to 2 build. It would be 102 kilometres long. It would go 3 across the Hamlet, KIA and federal lands. 4 What does it do? It allows us to reduce our 5 infrastructure costs in Baker Lake, it reduces the 6 capital cost of our transportation fleet, it allows us 7 to make a smaller air strip at Meadowbank, it reduces 8 our freight costs, and bottom line is the road is a key 9 component of the financing and development of this 10 project. 11 Of course, the engineers and the geologists have 12 been busy over the last ten years trying to find the 13 gold. The environmental team has been just as busy. We 14 began our studies in 1996, and you can see the suite of 15 studies we have conducted, it would be your standard of 16 wildlife environment studies. And we have proceeded to 17 continue to do those studies up to 2004, and, in fact, 18 we are continuing to be studying the land. In fact, 19 just on the weekend my fishery biologist and wildlife 20 biologist and Tom Mannik was out on the land studying 21 fish and wildlife. 22 Of course, all the work, all the hard work we have 23 done over the last ten years have been compiled into the 24 Environmental Impact Statement, which is the document we 25 are here to defend today. This document is here sitting 26 on our table here in front of us. It represents a lot DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00034 1 of hard work, and we are very proud of it. 2 Essentially, the EIS is divided into four -- three 3 major areas, the baseline reports, which tells us, gives 4 us an idea of what the environment is today, naturally 5 without any impacts. The second set of reports, very 6 important, you take the mine plan and you lay it on top 7 of the baseline studies, and you determine where you 8 have negative impacts and what you need to do to 9 mitigate those impacts, in other words to prevent them. 10 And, finally, you develop -- and these are the most 11 important documents, you develop management and 12 monitoring plans. 13 So you -- first of all, they ensure that you 14 implement your mitigation measures, and secondly, your 15 monitoring ensures that what you predict to happen is 16 happening. And if, through the monitoring, it indicates 17 that we are having effects that we did not expect, you 18 can modify your management plans. 19 In a nutshell, these are just the breakdown of the 20 documents, baseline, impact assessment, management 21 reports. 22 Just some of the results from our studies, 23 archaeology. Unfortunately, we had a -- we did have a 24 local person doing archeology, Debra Webster, she can't 25 be with us for the second part of this project, but she 26 did a really good job for us to date. And she studied DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00035 1 the archeology from Baker Lake up, all the way up to 2 town, to the mine site. And essentially we do -- 3 certainly there are archeology features, but we have no 4 impact on any of them. We do that mostly by avoidance. 5 If there is something like a tent ring, then we just 6 leave it alone, go around it. 7 The other area of importance, of course, is 8 traditional knowledge. This is work that Hattie did for 9 us over the last seven, eight years. And you can see 10 some of the things that she has been able to identify, 11 tent rings, grave sites, fishing areas, spiritual areas 12 and some of the minor caribou routes. 13 It has been a great help. Hattie has done a 14 fantastic job, and this gives us the confidence that we 15 can go ahead and build this mine without having negative 16 impacts to the traditional lifestyles of the local 17 people. 18 A little bit about socio-economic. Of course, the 19 mining is about gold, but it is really about jobs. Some 20 of the key issues that we looked at were employment and 21 business, traditional knowledge, traditional way of 22 life, individual and community well-being, the 23 infrastructure in town and the Kivalliq, and the 24 heritage resources, and also we looked at the 25 territorial level of employment. 26 The study areas of Baker Lake and Nunavut, we used DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00036 1 existing documents and consultation to gather the 2 baseline data. 3 So what did our impact assessment tell us? Well, 4 we know we are going to have positive effects through 5 employment and business benefits, but there is also the 6 positive and negative effects of moving to a mixed 7 economy. As with any change, there are stresses. 8 However, the overall positive effects we predict are 9 going to be beneficial and it will be an increase in 10 economic opportunity. 11 Of course, with the increase in economic activity, 12 people have more ATVs, people have -- are able to go -- 13 have money to buy bullets, so they can go hunting. Just 14 generally means more activity generally, and therefore 15 we accept the fact that we will -- probably be required 16 more policing. As I said to you before, there is no 17 minimal effect on the heritage resources. 18 So how do we mitigate all of these things? Well 19 the good ones we just enhance. So job opportunities we 20 enhance through employment, and training, we offer 21 special preferred contracting and preferred employment. 22 We, in our work force , of course, we have a code of 23 conduct. We do cross-cultural training for the 24 southerners to bring in to work at the mine, and we have 25 rotational employment which allows the people to come 26 home every two weeks to continue their traditional DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00037 1 lifestyles. We also will put in place initiatives that 2 will support individual and community wellness. 3 The last issue of closure, this, of course, is 4 always a concern in a mine that's boom or bust. We will 5 finish the mine eventually, and there will be a gap when 6 we leave, and that has to be dealt with. And this is a 7 very complicated process, but what we hope is due to the 8 12 years that we will be here, we will generate enough 9 education, stimulation, other employment activities that 10 hopefully the good will be -- will remain. 11 Monitoring, well, we have operational monitoring, 12 that will be done right at site. In other words, we 13 will be able to keep track of how many jobs we are 14 letting out, what our subcontractors are doing, the 15 health of our workers and the consultations taking 16 place. There is also going to be education and 17 training, and, of course, we are going to monitor things 18 so we can modify if we notice there is some 19 difficulties, and this will be adaptive training. And 20 what we need still to define the measures that we are 21 going to use to measure community wellness. 22 And, finally, how all of this is going to be 23 wrapped together. Well, we propose that all our 24 mitigation and all our social mitigation monitoring is 25 wrapped up into the IIBA, which is to be developed in 26 partnership with the KIA. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00038 1 Thank you. That's the end of my section. I don't 2 know if you have questions, or should we wait? 3 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. We will have 4 questions by intervenors. KIA, questions to Cumberland? 5 Thank you. NTI? Thank you. INAC? Thank you. 6 Department of Fisheries and Oceans? Thank you. NRCan? 7 Natural Resources Canada? Acres? Questions? Thank 8 you. Any questions from the public? Elders, questions 9 to Cumberland? Thank you. NIRB staff, any questions? 10 Thank you. Board members, any questions? Lucassie? 11 LUCASSIE ARRAGUTAINAQ: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 12 First of all, just a comment on that traditional 13 knowledge, the traditional knowledge, what's the chance 14 you reported was saying the integration of these two 15 novelties was mentioned? I just want to comment, it is 16 really impossible to integrate those two true knowledges 17 because one is measurable and one is not. That's all. 18 Another issue that arose is in the North, probably 19 around the world, people are talking about adaptation 20 towards climate change. And I know that the hunters are 21 specifically being asked if they have appeared before 22 the climate change adaptation. And I think it would be 23 very important for the mining companies to have that, 24 something like that in place towards climate change. 25 It is very important because of the tailings and 26 the permafrost, that kind of thing. There being DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00039 1 construction, infrastructure of the mine itself, that 2 has been -- that might alter by the climate change. I 3 think that should be really taken into account, too, in 4 a way. 5 There was another report saying that the job 6 training or apprenticeship program was also mentioned in 7 the report. It would be nice to see the actual 8 indication of the real commitment that would be put 9 forward to the apprenticeship program. 10 And one other thing, too, is that the road from 11 Baker Lake to the mine, what kind of security system 12 that will be in place from Baker Lake to the mine, what 13 kind of security or checkpoint or something like that. 14 I wonder if there has been some kind of feasibility 15 studies in the North that do have that kind of road from 16 the construction site to the community. 17 The reason why I am saying that, in James Bay, they 18 have those kind of things, roads to the communities, and 19 there have been a lot of problems within, from the 20 community to the site, crashes here and there because 21 there is no really planning in place or security in 22 place for those kind of things. 23 I guess for now that maybe I will ask them 24 afterwards after the presentation maybe. 25 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Lucassie. 26 CRAIG GOODINGS: Was there a specific DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00040 1 question that you wanted me to answer, or just it was a 2 general comment? 3 CHAIRPERSON: It is mostly general 4 comments. 5 Maybe we will move on with the presentations. 6 Okay. We are going to start now with the engineering 7 part of the project, which is very important, on the 8 permafrost. John will start. 9 PRESENTATION BY PROPONENT ON ENGINEERING 10 JOHN CUNNING: Matna. Good morning, 11 everyone. 12 As I said, my name is John Cunning. I work with 13 Golder Associates providing engineering, geotechnical 14 and environmental services to Cumberland in support of 15 the feasibility studies and preparation of the draft 16 EIS. 17 I am going to start with a description of some of 18 the engineering baseline studies, beginning with the 19 permafrost baseline. As Craig described, the site is 20 located about 70 kilometres north of here. 21 The climate at the site is very cold and very dry. 22 One of the objectives of studying the engineering, 23 studying the ground at the site was to obtain ground 24 temperature information to get -- characterize the 25 permafrost as shown on this slide. One of the engineers 26 is reading temperature monitoring devices located in a DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00041 1 borehole, and a graph of the temperature results with 2 time, plotting temperature against depth is shown on 3 here. We have a number of these all over the site, 4 approximately 200 monitoring points. It will allow us 5 to characterize the permafrost in the ground beneath the 6 site. 7 This is a map of the permafrost distribution within 8 Canada. It has been well studied by a member of private 9 and government agencies. This site is located on that 10 mark up there in an area of known deep continuous 11 permafrost and an area of low expected ground ice. 12 As a Board member mentioned, the issue of climate 13 change has been on our mind and is an important part of 14 the engineering studies. What actually is also shown on 15 this slide is an estimate of some of the changes to the 16 permafrost climate in Canada as a result of climate 17 change, and that would be the pushing northward of the 18 boundary of continuous and discontinuous permafrost. 19 And projections by this particular author Woo, et al., 20 do suggest that even with a certain climate change 21 model, the site would be located within continuous 22 permafrost and still at a cold below subzero annual air 23 temperature. 24 So through our studies of the temperatures on site, 25 we have learned a lot about the depth of permafrost, it 26 is up to 500 metres deep. The permafrost is affected by DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00042 1 the larger lakes on site. Some of the lakes are 2 connected with taliks or unfrozen zones to the deep 3 groundwater below the permafrost. And we, from the 4 temperature measuring, we get information on the active 5 layer or the surface seasonal depth of thaw. 6 The next study I am going to talk about is 7 hydrogeology baseline studies, this is to characterize 8 the rock in the ground for flow of water. This is a 9 plan area of the southern part of the mine site with the 10 Goose and Portage ore zones over here, Second Portage 11 and Third Portage Lake. And this just shows the 12 distribution of boreholes, drilling holes conducted on 13 the site. And in all of these holes we have taken 14 in-situ hydraulic conductivity measurements to 15 characterize the rock. 16 These are all compiled together, so we can make a 17 three-dimensional model of the site and start predicting 18 regional groundwater flow. As I said, there is 19 permafrost away from the lakes to a great depth. There 20 is some thaw zones under the depths, and our modelling 21 is able to predict quantities and directions of these 22 flows. 23 If we look at the surface map, we have some higher 24 lakes up near the Vault deposit, and we projected the 25 flow is towards some of the lower lakes, as well as to 26 the southwest to the Tehek Lake. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00043 1 If we combined the results of the thermal and 2 hydrogeological studies and plot a cross section of the 3 site, up here is Wally and Vault Lakes, Second and Third 4 Portage area down here. We can estimate from our 5 thermistors on site how deep we think the permafrost 6 table, approximately 450 to 500 metres away from the 7 lakes. As I said, some of the larger lakes, depending 8 on their size, are expected to have thaw zones or taliks 9 beneath them with permafrost separating the bigger ones. 10 Smaller lakes don't tend to connect to the deep 11 groundwater. And we show, from our modelling of the 12 water, some of the flow direction. And we do estimate 13 the speed of this flow, which is in the order of 14 thousands of years to travel from the higher lakes to 15 the lower lakes. 16 Some of the studies, engineering studies carried 17 out include deciding on the locations for the mining 18 waste rock and the tailings products. On this slide, we 19 look at the Portage mining area, and knowing the 20 quantity of waste rock to be removed from here, we 21 evaluated up to four options for the placement of this 22 rock on the land. Four options are shown in the blue 23 hatching, A, B, C and D. 24 Using an alternatives study and applying the 25 correct design criteria for the acceptable operation, 26 considering the environment, the operation costs and DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00044 1 operation and costs of these structures, we selected 2 Site A for the waste rock as the preferred site. And 3 not shown on here is the Vault pit, but it is up north a 4 little ways, and we did a similar study. But really 5 when we sat down to study it, there was one preferred 6 option, and that was the selected option at the Vault 7 site. 8 We also did a similar study on the tailings 9 facilities where the mine tailings could go, the hatch 10 areas are the lakes here and here, and this is on the 11 ground. We considered up to four sites in lakes, three 12 sites on ground using up to three different tailings 13 technologies, these are slurries, pastes or dry stack, 14 and, again, ran the different indicators, different 15 criteria of environmental and operational and cost 16 through a decision matrix to select a preferred site, 17 which is Site C in the north arm of the Second Portage. 18 As Craig showed in his presentation, one of the 19 keys to mining the ore deposits located under the lake 20 is dewatering dikes. The lakes aren't shown, but the 21 deposits are down here at the Goose and the Portage. 22 A lot of engineering went in to designing 23 dewatering dikes that allow the safe operation to 24 dewater the lake and work with men and equipment below 25 these -- below these lakes at great depth for the 26 mining. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00045 1 The dikes, the dewatering dikes are constructed 2 with mine waste material generated when the pits start 3 on land, the waste rock and till materials are used with 4 an additional of a bentonite cut-off wall to control 5 seepage. 6 The tailings facility from this alternative study 7 is the second northwest arm of the Second Portage. This 8 requires construction of an engineered tailings dike to 9 separate the impoundment area from the Portage deposit. 10 Reclaimed water for the mining tailings go into one end, 11 water is reclaimed for use in the plant, and another 12 separate basin is used to control surface runoff water 13 from the site. 14 An engineering cross section of the tailings dike 15 we propose to construct has been designed in the 16 feasibility studies with two foundation options. Our 17 current drilling under the lake beds left some 18 uncertainty in the foundation, so we carried forward 19 with two design options. 20 This is a section of the tailings dam has an 21 impermeable core and a rock-filled shell, and it has 22 been tested for -- it has been engineered for stability 23 and seepage in thermal conditions. 24 One of the big components of the tailings facility 25 design is to understand the thermal conditions, both now 26 and during mining and into the future. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00046 1 Geothermal models or assimilations of the ground 2 temperatures are undertaken. In this case, we predict 3 the initial conditions with the arm at the Second 4 Portage Lake which we expect from our temperature 5 measurements is unfrozen and the general permafrost away 6 from the lake frozen. We then model a series of cases 7 where we place tailings in this lake, both initially 8 frozen, which both considering initially tailings that 9 freeze during deposition, this facility will be operated 10 during many winter months in a very cold climate. And 11 in that case, the tailings freeze during operation and 12 cause freezing to penetrate deep into the rock, 13 generating permafrost below the tailings facility. 14 We also considered another case on the other 15 extreme where we do not freeze tailings during operation 16 due to processes that process water being warmer and 17 other considerations, and we modelled those tailings. 18 After the end of mine life, our modelling tells us it 19 takes approximately 200 years to completely freeze all 20 the tailings and begin freezing under the bedrock. We 21 also considered climate change during that time, and 22 that could require the freezing to take another hundred 23 years, up to 300 years. 24 So at closure, we predict -- this is another 25 section looking at the tailings area beside the 26 mined-out pit area, and we have done, again, seepage and DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00047 1 thermal analyses to study the distribution of 2 temperature, and we predict we can keep the tailings 3 frozen on this side, and a talik still exists beneath 4 the pit, which was the Portage Lake before. 5 And that's the end of my summary of -- brief 6 summary of the engineering. Thank you. 7 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any questions 8 to this presentation? KIA? NTI? INAC? DFO? 9 DFO QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON ENGINEERING 10 Q DERRICK MOGGY: The one question I had was 11 with respect to the waste rock pile. I noticed that you 12 looked at the four different options there. We did have 13 some discussion about one of them being smaller. I 14 wonder if you could maybe elaborate on that? 15 A JIM CUNNING: Yeah, you are right. In 16 that slide we looked at four options. Generally when 17 the waste area had a larger footprint, we were going 18 with a lower height, and the smaller footprint had a 19 higher height which is a trade-off, because with the 20 higher heights, there can be additional geotechnical 21 issues. 22 I guess what I didn't show is the current 23 alternative site which combines waste on land with waste 24 in the pit under the increased production plan. And, 25 again, that's a smaller footprint with a medium height. 26 DERRICK MOGGY: Thanks. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00048 1 JOHN CUNNING: Thank you. 2 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. NRCan? Acres 3 International? 4 ACRES QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON ENGINEERING 5 Q RAMLI HALIM: Ramli Halim with Acres 6 International. 7 I just want to find out from you about the distance 8 between the tailing dikes, the total retaining dikes and 9 the edge of the pit wall excavation. And my question is 10 more related to the stability and the materials that, in 11 terms of the soil and rock condition between the tailing 12 dikes and the pit excavation wall. 13 And I was wondering whether there is adequate 14 subsurface investigation at this time for the EIS design 15 level that suggest that they won't have any problem in 16 terms of any potential failure or any soft zone that can 17 cause seepage -- seepage from the tailing dikes into the 18 pit excavation? And I know that this is actually in the 19 EIS design level that you are planning to do probably 20 additional investigation before the final construction 21 of the dike. What kind of option do you think you have? 22 For example, if you found doing the drillings in between 23 the two area, you will found -- you will find some weak 24 zones that you have to do? 25 A JOHN CUNNING: Thank you. There is a 26 number of issues you raised. I believe the set-back DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00049 1 from the toe of the tailings dike to the edge of the 2 mining is 60 metres, this is quite a great distance. We 3 had -- it is considered in the pit stability. 4 We have a number of geotechnical boreholes that 5 have been located both for the tailings dike design and 6 towards the pit, as well as the pit exploration. If I 7 can find a cross section -- it is actually a favourable 8 condition. The dike is contained on ground that rises 9 towards the open pit. It is not the situation where 10 that is sloping down towards the pit, making it 11 favourable from a stability point of view. 12 And another key point is that during operation, the 13 mining of the Portage area is carried out in benches, 14 approximately 5 to 8 metres at a time, and very intense 15 monitoring can be carried out on a bench-by-bench basis 16 to observe any movement in this ground that could 17 potentially impact pit stability, which is typical of 18 any mining operation. 19 I think that's all, Ramli. 20 Q RAMLI HALIM: Ramli Halim, Acres 21 International. Another question that I was trying to 22 find out is about the tailing dike itself. I know that 23 there is changes in the operation of the mining, and I 24 was wondering is does that have any effect at all in 25 terms of the size of the tailing dikes? 26 And the second question on this portion is have you DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00050 1 actually been carrying out analysis on terms of 2 stability for the long-term condition about the dike 3 after closure in terms of stability from the tailing 4 dikes and failure into the test pit excavation? 5 A JOHN CUNNING: Yeah. To answer your 6 second part first, yes, long-term stability of the dike 7 was carried out in the feasibility level design. That 8 included frozen tailings upstream and pit flooded 9 downstream. 10 And, I am sorry, your first part was the size of 11 the dike has been -- the dike and the volume in the 12 impoundment has been designed to store the life of the 13 current -- the current life of mine tailings with an 14 allowance for some additional capacity if we do not 15 achieve the required densities in the tailings to get 16 sufficient storage. The crest can be variable. It has 17 options to raise the crest if additional volume is 18 needed. 19 RAMLI HALIM: Mr. Chairman, I don't have 20 any further questions. Thank you. 21 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any questions 22 from the public regarding this presentation? 23 RESIDENTS QUESTION THE PROPONENT ON ENGINEERING 24 Q ORIN DUREY: Yeah, Orin Durey, Baker 25 Lake. Can you bring up the slide on the graph of the 26 permafrost? The permafrost depth temperatures? No, the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00051 1 graph. Yeah, temperatures, yeah, that one there. I am 2 wondering what your modelling, what you are doing for 3 long-term modelling of changes in the active layer? 4 When you look at the top portion of that graph, 5 below or above about 40 metres it is not a straight 6 line, okay, so that indicates already we are into global 7 warming, there is already degradation of the average 8 temperature at that depth, and then it joins the 9 straight line going down. You extend the straight line 10 all the way to where it intersects zero Celsius and you 11 interpolate what your overall depth is of permafrost. 12 What are you doing for modelling long-term 13 acceleration of changes in the active layer based on 14 readings you have already taken? Thanks? 15 A JOHN CUNNING: Yes, let me describe this a 16 bit better first off, maybe I went over it too quick. 17 But this is a typical temperature profile for northern 18 thermistor string or measuring ground temperature. It 19 is expected, regardless of climate change, to have high 20 variability of temperature in the upper 20 to 30 metres. 21 The surface temperature at site or in the North 22 ranges from plus 10 degrees in the summer to minus 40 23 degree air temperature in the winter. So it has been 24 well published that an expected temperature curve has a 25 trumpet effect of a very cold curve in the upper zone in 26 the winter and can be very warm in the summer. And, in DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00052 1 fact, this is very typical. We expect up to 2 metres of 2 thaw through in the active layer. 3 This profile is pretty typical of a study state 4 condition where there is not temperature change going on 5 at surface. 6 In order to consider climate change, what our 7 modelling looks at is some of the predicted ranges in 8 change of annual average temperature with time. And 9 over the next hundred years, there is some solid 10 prediction or some, sorry, scientific predictions 11 indicating upwards of 5 degrees mean annual average 12 temperature change, and those are the kind of numbers we 13 used in our analysis to predict the change in ground 14 temperature. 15 But even with a five-degree change, we don't see a 16 -- there is some thawing of the larger permafrost 17 thickness, but it doesn't -- does not disappear under 18 that scenario. 19 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Questions? It 20 is only regarding this presentation. 21 Q MIKE ALEIK: Thank you. Hello. Can you 22 put that -- is that the Goose Island? Okay. My 23 question is the name Goose Island, that name, when that 24 happened, the name Goose Island, perhaps there is some 25 geese, Canada geese there nesting right now on Goose 26 Island. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00053 1 What are you -- my question is, when the mine opens 2 in the future, and I hope that -- I support -- I always 3 support Meadowbank project, I have good -- my concern is 4 that when they open that mine in Meadowbank and there is 5 gold in that island, how are you going to deal with all 6 of those fowl, I mean the birds, geese, if they are 7 nothing right now? That's my question, my first 8 question. Can you answer that one, when they open -- 9 when they start opening the mine, how are you going to 10 deal with it, all of those eggs and whatnot going on 11 right now in the future? That's my first question. 12 A MARTIN GEBAUER: Yeah, Martin Gebauer. I am 13 looking at the wildlife issues. I should just say that 14 we have been surveying for nesting water birds for the 15 last few years, and I believe Tom looked at Goose Island 16 last year. Tom, did you survey the shoreline on Goose 17 Island last year? 18 TOM MANNIK: Which language am I going 19 to use now? 20 MARTIN GEBAUER: You can use your Native 21 tongue or English, your preference. 22 A TOM MANNIK: Okay. Mike Aleik, the 23 question posed is the land does not have any geese, and 24 we have not seen -- we have never seen any nests. 25 Q MIKE ALEIK: Why is it named Goose 26 Island anyway? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00054 1 A TOM MANNIK: It seemed it did not have, 2 and so it is just a -- we have named it that just as an 3 indication as to what it is. 4 Q MIKE ALEIK: Number 2, is the caribou 5 migration during the year, caribou? 6 MARTIN GEBAUER: Should I answer that 7 question now or during my presentation? 8 CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me, I think when you 9 are doing your presentation, we will do the wildlife 10 part. 11 MARTIN GEBAUER: Yes, I do talk about 12 wildlife movement and caribou movement there. 13 CHAIRPERSON: So, excuse me, once he is 14 done his presentation -- 15 Q MIKE ALEIK: Oh, yeah, okay. Okay. 16 Number 3 -- I won't keep you long. 17 You mentioned something about roughly around 350 18 people around Canada, right? In the future, I would 19 like to see people coming from the south, maybe half of 20 it and maybe half of from Nunavut. If you divide 350 21 people, when the mine is going on, that would be 22 something like 175, times 2, right? 23 So I would like to really support Meadowbank if it 24 is open, you hire from here, number 1, because people in 25 Baker Lake, they live here all their lives. Number 1, 26 you start hiring here in Baker Lake and the rest of them DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00055 1 wherever you wanted to. Even people with no training, I 2 am sure there is some interested people out there right 3 now who are not saying they would be more than happy to 4 work. So you start hiring and training them too. Could 5 you do that in the future? That's my question. 6 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Our intention is to hire as 7 many people from Nunavut as we possibly can. 8 MIKE ALEIK: I had more other questions, 9 but that's okay for now. There is other people. 10 I will come before it is all over. You have got 11 how many more days, tomorrow? I might be here tomorrow. 12 There is other people going to be here. Thank you very 13 much. Have a nice day. 14 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 15 questions from the public regarding this presentation? 16 NIRB staff? Karlette? 17 NIRB STAFF QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON ENGINEERING 18 Q KARLETTE TUNALEY: You had mentioned that the 19 tailings impoundment area, the crest of that could be 20 variable. I was just wondering if there was a maximum 21 height? 22 A JOHN CUNNING: Yes, sure, that's a good 23 question because certainly it is not endless height, we 24 won't keep going. But within the -- we have done some 25 planning to engineer the facility on some average 26 conditions that we know about the material, but because DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00056 1 of the climate at this site, very cold, the operation 2 will be very cold. It presents a lot of challenges with 3 managing a tailings facility, and will promote freezing 4 of the tailings quite -- and it freezes well. 5 So due to the review of experience of the operating 6 mine sites in the North right now, we have estimates of 7 what we call ice entrapment from around 0 on average. 8 Some sites can entrap up to 40 percent ice in their 9 impoundment, and what this does, is it takes away 10 storage volume you intended for the tailings. So we 11 have built in some flexibility to account for about an 12 average 20 percent ice. We don't account for any more 13 than that. After that, you have to start looking for a 14 different facility, basically. 15 KARLETTE TUNALEY: Thank you. 16 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 17 questions from the staff? 18 Q STEPHEN LINES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 19 Has the final location of all of the waste rock piles 20 been confirmed, or are there still any outstanding 21 things to consider on where they are going to be 22 located? 23 A JOHN CUNNING: No, the location I showed 24 called Area A is the preferred option. It is the actual 25 height, and there is some variation on the size of the 26 footprint because the current mine scheduling will DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00057 1 allow. We planned for putting all the waste on surface, 2 and now some of the scheduling allows some of it to be 3 put in the open pit, which reduces what needs to go on 4 surface. But that footprint is fairly fixed now, and 5 the alternative site won't change. 6 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 7 questions from the staff? Thank you. Any questions 8 from the Board members regarding this presentation? 9 Pauloosie? 10 BOARD MEMBERS QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON ENGINEERING 11 Q PAULOOSIE PANILOO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 12 The slides that we have seen, firstly the buildings that 13 were going to be, when they are being brought up to be 14 brought in, I wanted to get further clarification, are 15 they going -- and if there are -- when the lake is 16 frozen over, will they be bringing in the building 17 materials and sometimes -- and sometimes, some of the 18 roads that I have seen that are being used for the 19 building materials, will they be bringing by ship, or 20 how are they going to be transported? 21 A CRAIG GOODINGS: The building materials will 22 be brought in by barges out of Churchill and Montreal. 23 There will be about five barges annually that come down 24 the Chesterfield Inlet into Baker Lake, and from there, 25 they will be moved down to the all-weather road and 26 moved into camp. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00058 1 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Pauloosie? 2 Q PAULOOSIE PANILOO: Thank you. Thank you for 3 the clear clarification. 4 When the area is being dewatered, where is it going 5 to be? Where is the water that is being drained out, 6 where is it going to be poured into? 7 A JOHN CUNNING: Yeah, I understand the 8 question to be where is the water going to be pumped 9 when we dewater the lakes. The north arm of the Second 10 Portage, and for Portage and Goose pits, I believe, the 11 water gets pumped into the Third Portage, which is 12 connected to the lower Second Portage area at controlled 13 rates of discharge into that lake. 14 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 15 questions from the Board? 16 Thank you for your presentation. We will break for 17 lunch and be back at 1:15. 18 (ADJOURNED AT 12:00 P.M.) 19 (RECONVENED AT 1:15 P.M.) 20 CHAIRPERSON: Welcome back, everybody. I 21 hope everybody had a good lunch. 22 We will continue with the Cumberland's 23 presentations. 24 JOHN DONIHEE: May we put our next 25 presenter forward, Mr. Chairman? 26 CRAIG GOODINGS: It will be Valerie Pringle, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00059 1 she will be discussing the water quality. Sorry. We 2 will just leave it at Val. 3 She is going to talk about water quality issues and 4 how she came about giving us the water quality 5 predictions. 6 PRESENTATION BY PROPONENT ON WATER QUALITY 7 VALERIE BERTRAND: As Craig so eloquently 8 said, I am Valerie Bertrand working -- I'm a geologist 9 with specializing in geochemistry. I will explain to 10 you what geochemistry is in a second. 11 I have been working on the site for five years now. 12 Okay, on that, what is geochemistry? One of the 13 issues that we are concerned with at the mine is, the 14 mine, as we take out the gold, we are going to be taking 15 out a lot of rock that we don't need that are in the way 16 of that gold, and that will create waste. 17 We need to know how that waste rock and tailings 18 will interact with the water and what effects the waste 19 is going to have on the receiving water, both on the 20 mine site, the water that accumulates in the pits, the 21 water with the tailings and the water that we are going 22 to -- that is going to flow in Third Portage and Second 23 Portage Lakes. 24 So in order to measure those impacts and measure 25 what the water quality will be once we have the mine 26 there, we go through a geochemical program. That is we DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00060 1 evaluate -- we evaluate what kind of waste we are going 2 to be generating. We are going to be generating -- at 3 this site, we are going to be generating waste rock, 4 tailings, soils that are going to be put aside and water 5 that we will have accumulated. Where is that waste 6 going to go, and how much of it will we have? So we 7 need to know these things, and that's the engineers to 8 tell -- to say where and how much waste is going to be 9 generated. 10 The focus of the geochemical study was to evaluate 11 what the composition of those wastes are going to be and 12 how they will weather, how they will oxidize or rust in 13 the environment. 14 I say "rust", because the rock associated with the 15 ore and outside of the gold ore contains metals, 16 naturally it contains metals in the rock. And unlike -- 17 kind of similar to a car, the metals in the rock will 18 rust, and that rusting will then wash into the water. 19 So that's what we study, we study how much metals, where 20 are they and how they will wash into the water. 21 Part of that study also we need to know, as I said, 22 is how much water and snow will fall on the mine, on the 23 mine waste, how are we going to capture it, and how are 24 we going to put it back into the lake once it is clean. 25 That's how we monitor the effects of the mine on the 26 water quality. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00061 1 I will take you through the design once more. This 2 is the Vault area north of the major area of mining. 3 This is going to be the open pit and the waste of that 4 pit, the big coarse material will go into the rock 5 storage pile here, and the ore will be brought south to 6 the Portage area. 7 Water that falls on the rock storage and into the 8 pit, so in the spring when the snow melts and when it 9 rains, the water will be -- will accumulate in the pit 10 and will be pumped here. Unfortunately, you can't see 11 well, this is going to be a water accumulation area 12 where we are going to measure the water quality, make 13 sure it is okay before we discharge to Wally Lake here. 14 So my job was to evaluate what the water quality was 15 going to be here before we discharge. 16 In the Portage area, we have three pits, two that 17 are connected, that's North Portage and Third Portage 18 and Goose Island pit. This is when -- close to the end 19 of mine life when everything is -- when all the pits are 20 open. 21 The waste rock from these pits will report to here, 22 the rock storage or rock pile area, so that's all waste. 23 And some of that waste, I said, contains metals. And 24 the ore, so the rock that contains the gold, goes to the 25 mill, gets crushed really fine, get the gold out, and 26 whatever is left, the fine powder goes into the tailing DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00062 1 impoundment here. And that's going to have a certain 2 water quality because of the metals in the water, so 3 there will be an effect here on the water quality here. 4 We will be pumping water from there at the end of 5 mine life and discharging to the lake for it to flow 6 across to Second Portage and out. My job was to 7 evaluate what that water quality here is going to be for 8 treatment and then discharge, and also to evaluate once 9 we discharge water into the lake, what the effect on 10 water quality was going to be in the lake. Is that 11 water still going to be good? I will answer that 12 shortly. 13 I am going to show you a section through the pit 14 here, so in order to know if -- what the impacts are 15 going to be from the rock, we need to know what the 16 rocks are like. That's Goose Pit. So imagine, this is 17 the surface of the land, you dig a large hole in the 18 ground to get the ore, the ore is the gold, in red here 19 is gold. 20 This, you can't just dig a hole here, you have to 21 take out all of this rock to get to the gold here. So 22 all of this does not contain gold, and that's why it 23 reports to the waste rock. You have to remove it, but 24 it doesn't contain anything, it goes to the waste rock 25 pile. This, you take out the gold, and it reports to 26 the tailing impoundment. This also reports to waste DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00063 1 rock. 2 The lines here are the drill lines, so the -- from 3 the surface drill, big holes, extracted the rock, and 4 from that we took samples to measure what the metal 5 content was. 6 Why are we worried about the metal content? This 7 is a typical open pit. This is an open pit at Diavik. 8 When rain falls on the rock, it dissolves the metals and 9 all the other constituents, accumulates in the water, 10 and that's what -- this is -- what's in there is how we 11 know what the water quality is going to be on the mine 12 site. 13 So we looked at, from those cross sections, taking 14 samples, we know what the rock types are, they are a 15 rock called intermediate volcanic, and that's more than 16 half of all the rock is this kind of rock with a certain 17 metal content. Another portion is ultramafic, there is 18 close to a quarter of the rock on the site which is 19 ultramafic, and the same amount iron formation. Iron 20 formation is what hosts the gold. So most of the gold 21 is in this rock in the south deposits. Whereas at 22 Vault, the gold is in this kind of rock. There is a 23 little bit of quartzite as well. 24 So we characterized each individual rock type to 25 see what their potential effects would be, whether they 26 would rust or not, how much of it would, and how much DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00064 1 metals would report to the water. 2 On the right are tailings. This is some -- it may 3 look something similar to this. This is in Peru, very 4 far. So this is really -- it looks like mud. This is 5 the rock that's ground really fine and put back into the 6 tailing impoundment. So we took some samples of that, 7 the metallurgists evaluated how to extract the gold, and 8 what they were left with was analyzed to evaluate what 9 -- how they would rust and what their quality would be, 10 the resulting water quality would be. 11 This is how we took our samples for rock, so drill 12 core. This is intermediate volcanic rock, and you can 13 see there is some rust here from the metal in the rock. 14 This is old rock that's been there for 15 years, so it 15 is pretty -- it is fairly clean. There is not much rust 16 on this. 17 This is the iron formation rock, so we looked at -- 18 we selected where we are going to take our samples and 19 extracted it from the core boxes on site. We then 20 subjected those samples to intensive weathering. We 21 crushed the samples, subjected them to water, then air 22 and collected the water that percolated through every 23 week. We added water and collected the water underneath 24 to see what the chemistry would be, and that simulates 25 what kind of weathering and rusting is going to happen 26 on site. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00065 1 We did that on three different scales, small scales 2 to evaluate what their variability would be within the 3 rock type. Larger scale, that's 100 kilogram column, 4 each one of those is 100 kilogram to see how they would 5 react together in a large pile. 6 We also did sampling of each rock type in these 7 barrels are rocks of each individual rock type to 8 evaluate what the effect of cold weather and dry climate 9 would be on the quality that -- on the water quality 10 affecting those rocks. 11 This slide shows the results; I will explain them. 12 Acid rock drainage and metal leaching, those are the two 13 issues that we are concerned with in this program. Acid 14 rock drainage is basically the result of rusting, the 15 consequence of rusting. When you have a lot of metals, 16 they can generate acid and mobilize even more metals. 17 We need to know if they are acid -- if they have a 18 potential to generate acid so that we can manage them 19 properly. 20 Quartzite, which is just one percent of the rock, 21 does have the potential to rust. Not much metals come 22 out of it because there is not much metals in it. 23 Intermediate volcanic has a variable potential. 24 This rock type, some of that rock contains a lot of 25 metals and some less, and there is also a question of 26 buffering capacity. Sometimes they generate metals, but DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00066 1 there is a lot of buffering capacity to precipitate 2 those metals out or to neutralize the acidic drainage. 3 So these rocks have a variable potential to generate 4 acid. 25 to 35 percent of it can generate acid. 5 The metal leaching, if it is -- if it does generate 6 acidity, there would be a lot of metals leaching out of 7 it, but if we prevent acidity from being generated, then 8 there will be not many metals coming out of it. 9 Iron formation, this is where the gold is, that 10 contains quite a lot of metals, a lot of minerals that 11 can't oxidize. And if we allow it to oxidize, if we 12 don't manage it properly, it can have a lot of metals 13 coming out of that rock and affecting water quality. 14 Whereas the ultramafic, which is this rock, does not 15 have any potential to generate acidity and will leach 16 not very high; very low to moderate levels of metals 17 coming out of that rock. 18 So knowing this, the properties of each of the rock 19 types, this has given to engineering for them to propose 20 a management strategy for this rock that will prevent 21 acidity from being generated. It is not part of that 22 slide, but that's why we have designed the waste rock 23 pile the way they are. 24 In the Vault area, the waste rock pile would 25 consist -- will not be covered, because we are confident 26 that this rock contains enough buffering capacity to DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00067 1 prevent any metal-rich acidic drainage from being 2 generated. Compared to the Portage area, we have a 3 balance of significant portion of the rock which could 4 potentially generate acidity in metals, so therefore we 5 will cover this rock with material that will buffer that 6 acidity. 7 We also did a water sampling program, not the 8 lakes. The lakes Randy will talk about later, but this 9 is the sampling program for water on the land, water 10 that drains, that will eventually report to the pits 11 also, so drains on the surface of the land. This is 12 Victor here. 13 We looked at the quality of the groundwater, the 14 water that is in the unfrozen zones below the lakes. 15 This is Steve, one of our guys extracting water from 16 this. This is a well here, I don't know if you can see 17 it, but there is a tubing from which the water, the 18 groundwater flows and then sampled and sent to 19 laboratory. 20 We also took some samples from trenches that are 21 dug. This is the Third Portage area over the 22 mineralized zone, so there was trenches. And water 23 accumulates in those trenches, and we sampled that water 24 to evaluate what the water quality -- the effects to 25 water quality would be to the pit where there is metals 26 with a lot of metals in them -- where there is rock with DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00068 1 a lot of metals in them 2 We have found that in area lakes, as Randy will 3 say, there is very low dissolved metals, there is very, 4 very clean water. There is not much dissolved in the 5 water. From the surface drainage, this is also very 6 low, it is pretty much melt water, snow melt. The 7 groundwater itself does contain, naturally, a lot of 8 minerals in it, moderately to high metal content. And 9 the trenches, the water that accumulates in the trenches 10 does contain significant portions of metals. This tells 11 us that we will have to manage the water that 12 accumulates in the open pits. 13 Having all of this baseline information on the 14 quality of the rock and the water surrounding that rock, 15 we then can form predictions of what the water quality 16 is going to be. We use the geochemical data, the rate 17 at which the metals come out of that rock, that's 18 determined from the laboratory testing. 19 We know what the receiving water quality is, the 20 water quality of the lakes, the groundwater and the 21 surface water. We know how we are going to manage that 22 waste. We are going to put that waste in a big pile, 23 either mixed together or -- and we are going to put a 24 cover of buffering rock on top. 25 We know we are going to put the tailings by 26 themselves in an impoundment. We are going to manage DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00069 1 that water, and we know we are going to manage the water 2 that accumulates in the pits as well. 3 So knowing where all the water goes and where the 4 rock is placed and how it weathers, we mixed those two 5 in a computer model and come up with water quality 6 predictions each month of operation and postclosure. We 7 know what -- we can provide an evaluation of what the 8 water quality might look like. 9 So we take -- we know that water will accumulate on 10 the rock storage, will accumulate into the attenuation 11 pond. The pit waters will be pumped to the attenuation 12 pond in the first five years. Water from the land here 13 will also accumulate in the attenuation pond, and the 14 tailings water will remain in here. 15 After five years, we run out of room in the tailing 16 impoundment, and the attenuation pond moves to the open 17 pit here because we have finished excavating the open 18 pit. At that time, all that is -- all the water is 19 accumulated here and is used to fill the pit up, to fill 20 all of this with water. So we have very little 21 discharge after year five. So we input all of that into 22 our model, there is a computer there. 23 And I'm not going to go through the steps of the 24 modelling and exercise, we have gone through this at the 25 technical hearings, but the predicted water quality is 26 such that on the mine site, the rock -- the drainage DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00070 1 from the rock pile and the open pits will meet drinking 2 water standards. 3 The tailing water will not be discharged during the 4 operation. It does not meet drinking water, but it will 5 not be discharged during operation, it will be treated 6 at closure before discharge to the lakes. 7 And our modelling also indicates that Third Portage 8 and Wally Lake, as well as Second Portage Lake, the 9 water in those lakes will make health standards for 10 drinking water. Manganese might exceed those standards, 11 but that's really esthetic. It gives a different colour 12 to water in very high concentrations, but in this area 13 it is just at the margin, so -- and that's all. 14 Questions? 15 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your 16 presentation. Is there any questions specific to this 17 presentation? KIA? 18 KIA QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON WATER QUALITY 19 Q JOE KALUDJAK: Thank you. Just a short 20 one, I am Joe Kaludjak, Vice-president of KIA. I am 21 talking English for your benefit. 22 Just a short question here. I see by some of the 23 examples that we see on the screen that we use Diavik 24 mine as an example, which I think is okay because we 25 have an open mine, open-pit mine. 26 But another thing I have a question is the tailings DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00071 1 pond, how we had a mine in Kulitan Lake (phonetic) and 2 Yellowknife. I am just wondering how come those other 3 examples were not used and how safe the tailings pond 4 is, is my question. Thank you. 5 A VALERIE BERTRAND: That's a very good 6 question. 7 We, of course, will have used all of the examples 8 that we could that were appropriate for the site. The 9 Kulitan Lake example was used to evaluate its -- Kulitan 10 Lake has high metal tailings, as well, in a cold 11 environment. The Kulitan Lake tailings show that the 12 reactivity of the tailings is quite low, much lower than 13 the laboratory tests show because they are in a cold 14 environment. They have come up with numbers that can be 15 used to evaluate what the effect of cold climate would 16 be on leaching of metals from tailings, and we have used 17 those numbers and applied them to our site. 18 We have also considered the example of the now 19 closed Rankin Inlet -- North Rankin Inlet Mine where 20 there is high sulphide but the tailings still managed to 21 freeze. They are also deposited in a saline environment 22 on Hudson's Bay. 23 The other mine sites for tailings impoundment we 24 did not consider because they do not show a similar 25 environment, although it is in a same Arctic 26 environment, but, for example, some of the northern DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00072 1 mines, tailings have been deposited into a lake 2 submerged, and this is not the case here. 3 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 4 question in the back? 5 Q SILAS ANGOYUAQ: Hi, just wondering what 6 kind of mill will be operating to divide the gold and if 7 you will be operating a lab and what kind of -- what 8 type of chemicals will be used? Because in the past, 9 there will be some tailings where they have lost half of 10 the gold, and if this is not going to be the same 11 similar problem. 12 I am concerned as to what kind of mills they are 13 going to be using and the tailings, once they were 14 separated from the gold and the tailings. From what I 15 have noticed that a lot -- a big portion of the gold 16 also went to the tailings. 17 My other question is what type of -- what mill, 18 will it be a small mill or similar stuff they have used 19 in the past? In that case would it be the same after 20 they were... 21 A VALERIE BERTRAND: I will answer the question 22 about the chemicals that are used, for the other mill 23 types and other aspects, I will refer to Brad from 24 Cumberland. 25 For the chemicals that will be used, the only 26 chemical that we are adding to the rock upon grinding is DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00073 1 cyanide. Cyanide is the only component that will 2 dissolve gold, so we need to use it to liberate, to 3 extract the gold from the rock. This is a common 4 practice at gold mine sites, and cyanide will be handled 5 according to prescribed law. 6 The cyanide -- the mill will contain a cyanide 7 destruction loop, ECO SO2 air cyanide destruction that 8 will destroy the cyanide before the tailings are placed 9 back into the impoundment, such that we should not 10 have -- we should have only very little trace amounts, 11 if any, of cyanide in the impoundment. 12 Brad? 13 BRAD THIELE: The mill process is 14 crushing with a gyratory crusher, a very standard piece 15 of equipment, where the blasted rock from the pit is 16 hauled by truck to the crusher and dumped through a 17 grizzly into the crusher. It goes to a coarse ore 18 stockpile from where it is reclaimed and sent to the 19 mill building itself, which grinds the material from the 20 six-inch sizing down to a powder in a side mill in 21 closed circuit with a ball mill. It is a single 22 circuit. 23 Once it is ground fine enough, the hydrocyclone 24 bank separates it and sends the fine fraction onto a 25 leach circuit. 26 In the leach circuit, the rock particles are DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00074 1 exposed to the cyanide in solution, and that's where the 2 gold is dissolved by the cyanide. It goes onto a CIP 3 circuit, which is a carbon and pulp circuit for recovery 4 on carbon. The carbon is washed, and the resultant 5 sludge is burned in a furnace, and we pore dore bars, 6 the bricks of gold about the size of a loaf of bread. 7 We will pour about one a day and ship them out. 8 The recovery of gold is a challenge at any gold 9 plant, and it was critical in our studies. And our 10 recoveries are 93 and a half percent, that was the study 11 result, that's the result of a lot of studies on 12 representative samples from all the pits. And I would 13 like to say that our entire circuit, all the equipment 14 selection, the methodology, the recoveries that our 15 tests indicate that we will get are all quite standard, 16 and there is nothing unusual or special about our 17 circuit. 18 So we don't expect any problem with the gold 19 recovery. It is related to the grind usually. 20 We are fortunately, actually, the Meadowbank gold 21 is not that sensitive to the grind. In other words, it 22 is relatively easily liberated and reliably dissolved by 23 the cyanide, so we don't expect any problem in that 24 respect. 25 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. We will go back 26 to KIA for questions. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00075 1 KIA QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON WATER QUALITY 2 Q JEFF MARTIN: Hi. Jeff Martin, SENES 3 Consultants working with KIA. 4 My question is on the long-term predictions of 5 water quality. There was discussion there as the cover 6 as being a buffering cover, but maybe you could get into 7 a little bit of a discussion on the long-term 8 predictions of water quality. That's one question. 9 The second question is on ammonia and blasting 10 agents on the rock and water quality as well. Okay, 11 thanks. 12 A VALERIE BERTRAND: The first question 13 regarding long-term behaviour of that rock pile or the 14 long-term effects to water quality have been addressed. 15 We considered the long-term leach tests that we 16 did, carried out in the lab and also considered the 17 results of testing, similar testing at site at 18 Meadowbank where the expected climate conditions are 19 acting on the rock. We find that although the potential 20 for generating acid is there in the rock, our tests 21 indicate that the rocks, even the iron formation rock 22 experiences long delays before acidification occurs. 23 So we were confident that by placing this rock, 24 that by placing this rock in a pile, we will have time, 25 there will be time for the rock to freeze, which is -- 26 that will prevent -- freezing of the rock will prevent DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00076 1 or minimize the generation of acidity. 2 So the rock is such that there is time, it will 3 take time for it to start to generate acidity, and by 4 that time, the pile should be frozen, and, therefore, no 5 -- the water will be frozen in that rock pile that will 6 not drain out. 7 For the long term, we put in a cover equivalent to 8 the thickness of the active layer or the thickness of 9 the thaw layer so such that any thawing will not affect 10 the rock. The rock will stay frozen, and only the cover 11 will thaw and freeze. 12 So over the long term, the water quality from that 13 rock pile in the Portage area will be that of the cover, 14 the characteristics of the cover, which has no potential 15 to generate acid. 16 In the Vault area where we do not plan to put a 17 cover, there is effectively only 10 percent of the rock 18 that is potentially acid generating, another 14 percent 19 is uncertain. There is more buffering capacity than 20 acid potential, but just a little bit more, not that 21 much. While 75 percent, three-quarters of rock there 22 have no potential to generate acidity. 23 There is quite a bit of excess buffering capacity 24 as a whole for the entire pile. There is five times 25 more buffering capacity on the entire pile as there is 26 potential for it to acidify. So given that, we are DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00077 1 confident that there will be some constituents in the 2 water, but it will not be acidic drainage. 3 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 4 VALERIE BERTRAND: There was a second 5 question. The second question regarding ammonia. 6 Ammonia at Diavik is on their -- ammonia is on the minds 7 of the Diavik people. 8 Ammonia comes from the blasting agent, is ammonium 9 nitrate. In our water quality predictions, we assigned 10 a certain proportion of that blasting agent that was 11 going to be wasted and that would dissolve in the water 12 on the mine site. Given the conditions, we don't expect 13 that ammonia to degrade, we expect it to be conserved as 14 ammonia and as nitrate in the water. 15 We considered this in our water quality predictions 16 and found that ammonia and nitrate do meet the 17 regulatory standards, and that would be a high -- that 18 would be a conservative evaluation because some of the 19 ammonia and some of the -- well, some of the ammonia is 20 likely to degrade somewhat. 21 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other KIA 22 questions? Thank you. NTI? Department of Fisheries 23 and Oceans? 24 DFO QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON WATER QUALITY 25 Q DERRICK MOGGY: Derrick Moggy with 26 Fisheries and Oceans. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00078 1 Val, I had a couple of questions there. I was 2 wondering if Cumberland predicted what the water quality 3 would be, if it is going to be protective of sensitive 4 life stages of fish like fry eggs along the dikes where 5 fish habitat is being created? 6 A VALERIE BERTRAND: We evaluated the water 7 quality in the dikes, you are right. There will be -- 8 the dikes will be made of rock taken from the mine that 9 has some metal content. 10 And in our evaluation of lake water quality, we 11 accounted for the metals that were going to come off of 12 that dike. We -- effectively during operation, there is 13 going to be a hydraulic head or force of water that is 14 going to come from the lake into the pit. 15 We have monitored what that concentration in that 16 pore water would be, but effectively during operation 17 that water will be clean because there is a gradient 18 from the lake into the pit, so clean water from the lake 19 will be forced into the pores. 20 After operation when there is no longer a 21 difference in head on either side, the long-term water 22 quality, we find that there is going to be a diffusion 23 from the pore water out onto the lake, and about a metre 24 from that dike surface into the lake, we won't see any 25 effects of the pore water. But that's a conservative 26 evaluation, because that will be ten years afterward and DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00079 1 likely going to be much smaller than what we had 2 predicted, the concentrations we had predicted. 3 Q DERRICK MOGGY: Okay. Thanks for that, 4 Val. 5 Again, I think if the habitat is being created 6 along there and there is an expectation that the fish 7 would spawn in there, I guess it is our concern that 8 those eggs and fry that would be within and along that 9 dike can be protected. 10 If there was a period of time where it wasn't going 11 to be adequate in there, protective, have you guys 12 thought about predicting how long that would be? 13 A VALERIE BERTRAND: Over the -- we are in the 14 process of reviewing our water quality predictions based 15 on the new or the revised mine plan, and we will be 16 better -- perhaps better able to provide an answer on 17 that later. But perhaps Randy has something to add 18 regarding fish habitat, per se. 19 RANDY BAKER: If I could help Val answer 20 that question. Randy Baker conducting fisheries 21 studies. 22 We have considered the implications of the 23 suitability of habitat that's created along the dike 24 faces along the lake. We want these areas to be 25 suitable for fish to spawn. In fact, we want to 26 encourage fish to spawn along those dike faces. So one DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00080 1 of the mitigation measures is to place relatively 2 non-metal-leaching rock beneath the water surface. 3 Now, as Val said during the first ten years when 4 there is a big difference between water level on the 5 outside of the lake and a big deep pit, water will move 6 through the dike. So we expect clean water to be moving 7 through, and any metals that come off the rock on the 8 dike exterior will be moved into the pit, captured and 9 sent to an attenuation pond where it may be treated 10 before being released. 11 Having said that, the rock along the dike face will 12 be submerged for ten years or more before the pit is 13 filled, so there will certainly be a first flush of 14 metals from the rock surfaces, but the rocks are very 15 large, they are boulder-sized rocks, so it has a very 16 small surface area from which metals could leach. 17 After being underwater for ten years, I would not 18 expect metals concentrations in the pore spaces between 19 those rocks to exceed metals concentrations that might 20 adversely affect fish eggs. Having said that, we do 21 have a monitoring plan in place where we will 22 experimentally place eggs on the dike surfaces to see 23 what the possible effects of metal leaching, if any, 24 would have on survival of those eggs. So we do plan to 25 test this hypothesis during mine operation. 26 Q DERRICK MOGGY: Thanks, Randy and Val. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00081 1 Just one other thing. Do you expect that there 2 might be a bit of a change because there is going to be 3 ice on the lake for a good portion of the year? Would 4 that somehow maybe reduce the amount of washing along 5 that area, you know, to kind of remove some of those 6 high metals or whatever? 7 A VALERIE BERTRAND: During the -- we expect 8 there to be good mixing during the summer. But during 9 winter, less -- there is really just going to be 10 diffusion out from the pore space, diffusion of metals 11 out. 12 And certainly there is still going to be, even in 13 winter, there is still going to be that gradient during 14 operation, a gradient from the lake pushing clean water 15 through the dike and reaching the pit. So whether it 16 would be summer or winter, ice covered or not, we expect 17 the pore water to be good in the dikes. 18 And after the pits are flooded, then the same issue 19 is expected that Randy and I discussed from your 20 previous question. 21 DERRICK MOGGY: Thanks, Val. Thanks, Mr. 22 Chairman. 23 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Natural 24 Resources Canada, any questions? Acres International, 25 any questions? 26 ACRES QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON WATER QUALITY DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00082 1 Q RAMLI HALIM: Ramli Halim, Acres 2 International. 3 I just want to start this from the point of view in 4 terms of the mining operation. I believe there is 5 improvements made by Cumberland in terms of change or 6 improvement to the waste rock material into the Goose 7 Pit. That means that the Goose Pit can be started -- 8 start earlier, and by year five the Goose Pit can be 9 used to put the material -- the waste from the tailing 10 into the Goose Pit. And after that, there was also a 11 plan of using the waste rock materials to fill the Goose 12 Pit. I think that's my understanding. 13 My question is, is it more related to the effect of 14 the geochemicals in the Goose Pit itself, because by 15 year five, Goose Pit is going to be used as a 16 containment, basically, for tailings material, tailing 17 water. 18 And the second one after that, you are going to 19 start putting the waste rock into the pit. I'm not very 20 sure, because we don't have the material balance in 21 terms of material that's going to go into the Goose Pit. 22 What kind of rock actually at that time is going to be 23 dumped into the Goose Pit? 24 And the second one is that I understand that you 25 also tried to reduce the footprint of the waste rock 26 area so that you can avoid filling a small lake that DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00083 1 exists in the waste rock area. And by doing that, you 2 have to move a certain amount of waste rock into the 3 Goose Pit. 4 We don't have the information in terms of what, how 5 high the pit will be backfilled with the waste rock 6 materials, and is that going to be filled very, very 7 high back up so that there is going to be just under the 8 cover of the snow thickness? Because this has some 9 effect. I believe that if you want to use the disposal 10 area underwater, you have to make sure that the material 11 will be underwater all the time, and you have to 12 consider the thickness of the ice during the winter so 13 that during the springtime when it starts melting, that 14 there won't be any effect of tailings or waste rock 15 material being moved around or disturbed by the movement 16 of the ice. 17 I guess probably if you can answer that question, 18 there is quite a few of them, but they are all 19 interconnected in some way. 20 A VALERIE BERTRAND: Okay. Yes, we do plan to 21 put in waste rock into Goose and Third and North 22 Portage. 23 The exact height or level at which waste rock is 24 going to be placed into those pits is not confirmed yet, 25 but we are aiming for a thickness of water that will 26 firstly ensure that there is always water on the top, so DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00084 1 definitely more than two metres. 2 Secondly, we would like for the filled pits to 3 become further fish habitat, and for that it would need 4 to be more than two metres, because two metres, 5 basically the water cover can freeze for two metres, and 6 then we want to continue to always have water between 7 the ice and the top of the back-filled rock throughout 8 the year. 9 So probably we would be aiming at something between 10 6 and 2 metres of water -- well, maybe 6 and 3 metres, 11 but I am speculating here. This will be confirmed, but 12 those are our objectives. 13 With respect to the effect to water quality, we are 14 also in the process of modelling that, but our 15 expectation is that -- the expectation is that you want 16 to put as much of the reactive rock underwater, so the 17 iron formation. You would like to, or the objective is 18 to put as much iron formation rock underwater as 19 possible, because putting that underwater will 20 effectively minimize the potential to generate acid-rock 21 drainage because you cut off the oxygen to your rock so 22 that you can't rust your rock. Therefore, the 23 geochemical consequence of it would be really just a 24 first flush effect on the water quality and then ARD 25 would definitely be arrested. 26 Oh, and we are not planning to put tailings into DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00085 1 that pit, just waste rock. 2 Q RAMLI HALIM: Mr. Chairman, Ramli Halim 3 again from Acres. 4 I guess the water from the -- I remember that the 5 attenuation pond and the reclaimed pond, you are going 6 to send that water into the Goose Pit after, so actually 7 the water coming from the tailings, it is going to go 8 into the pit. Is that true? 9 A VALERIE BERTRAND: No, the water from the 10 tailings -- the tailings impoundment remains a closed 11 loop. The only water coming in and out of the tailing 12 impoundment is tailings water, supernatant, and there is 13 a portion of fresh water make up in there, but that 14 remains a closed loop. 15 The water that is routed to the pit is mine contact 16 and non-contact water within the catchment, within the 17 rain water catchment area. So it will be water from the 18 waste rock piles, water from any other unflooded 19 portions of pits, and water falling on the mine site, 20 but not tailing water. 21 Q RAMLI HALIM: Okay, I think I got 22 myself -- so that's -- so actually the water coming from 23 the attenuation pond is not from the reclaimed pond. 24 Okay. I guess probably I basically got some of the 25 answer from here. I would assume that this is going to 26 be on the final EIS? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00086 1 A VALERIE BERTRAND: That's right, it will be. 2 RAMLI HALIM: Okay. Thank you, Mr. 3 Chairman, there is no more questions at this time. 4 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any questions 5 from the local residents? Thank you. NIRB staff, any 6 questions? 7 NIRB STAFF QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON WATER QUALITY 8 Q KARLETTE TUNALEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 9 If you could go back to your presentation, I think 10 it is the second slide "Mine Design Portage Area." 11 There is a small dark area sort of between the airstrip 12 and I think that's the plant site. I was just wondering 13 if you could identify for me what that was. 14 A VALERIE BERTRAND: That's a natural pond 15 there, but any water that accumulates there will 16 eventually make its way to the attenuation pond. It is 17 part of the mine contact water system. 18 Q KARLETTE TUNALEY: Thank you. Going to your 19 fourth slide? Also this is just a question about your 20 sampling program. I was wondering if you could clarify 21 for each of those boreholes, how many samples you 22 collected from each and what kind of spacing or 23 frequency. 24 A VALERIE BERTRAND: The number of samples taken 25 from each borehole varied. Specific boreholes or 26 specific sections, cross sections, there was many. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00087 1 There was a cross section every 20 metres from south of 2 Vault -- south of Goose to the north of Vault or North 3 Portage and then in the Vault area. So specific 4 sections were selected, and from these sections, 5 specific boreholes were selected for samples. And the 6 number of samples per boreholes really depended on the 7 rock type, it crossed sometimes. In one borehole we 8 were interested in obtaining just two samples because we 9 were interested in sampling the centre of the ultramafic 10 rock type, for example, and in some boreholes we had no 11 samples. Some ore boreholes we had four or five or six 12 samples, so it really varied. 13 The basis of our sample selection was more 14 geographic and geochemical, not so much paying attention 15 to individual boreholes. 16 Oh, and sample interval. The objective here is to 17 obtain a sample that is as representative of whatever 18 characteristic you were trying to describe. So if it is 19 the contact zone between two rock types, then you would 20 target a smaller sampling interval. But in general, we 21 try to characterize the bulk of each individual 22 lithology. 23 So, for example, for the ultramafic rock type, well 24 any other rock type, we were aiming at sampling an 25 interval of three to four or five metres long to 26 represent one bench, one bench. A bench is this here, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00088 1 this is one bench. So we tried to take a sample that 2 would represent one bench, and in that three or 3 four-metre interval, we would collect -- it would be a 4 composite sample at every half a metre or so, and this 5 way we can avoid the cluster effect. 6 "Cluster" meaning if there is one area where there 7 is a vein of very high buffering capacity of a carbonate 8 vein or an area with high -- very high localized 9 sulphite minerals, you either -- you avoid areas that 10 are not characteristic of the whole of the bench. 11 Sometimes it fell into our composite, but you tried to 12 really take a sample that is representative of the bulk. 13 KARLETTE TUNALEY: Thank you, that answers my 14 question. 15 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 16 questions? Go ahead. 17 RESIDENT QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON WATER QUALITY. 18 Q SIMONE TOOKOME: I am concerned about the 19 tailings, coming from the -- if they are going to be at 20 that -- and so following the -- as all the land, you 21 know, is wet, so there is possibly -- how far is the 22 tailings from the lake and from the ice? 23 A VALERIE BERTRAND: I'm not sure that I got the 24 full question, but if the answer is relating just to 25 distance and the possibility of metals going to the 26 lake, I can answer that question. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00089 1 I will just show a graph here, go back to a drawing 2 of -- okay. So there are tailings here under the lake, 3 under the -- well, it is no longer a lake, it is a 4 tailing impoundment by the time we drain the lake, it is 5 a tailing impoundment. And the areas all around will 6 eventually be frozen, and currently are surrounded by 7 permafrost such that metals coming out of that wet area 8 can only move down to the unfrozen ground. And during 9 operation, the metals can very, very slowly migrate 10 through the dike but be captured in the pit water and 11 treated, if required, before discharge to the lake. 12 So, yes, tailings are close to Third Portage Lake, 13 but they are contained within frozen ground all around, 14 except on the bottom through a talik, which is we 15 evaluate about 400 to 500 metres thick, and travels 16 very, very slowly through that. 17 I hope this answers the question. 18 Q SIMONE TOOKOOME: The tailings is not -- you 19 know, through this, once the fish -- once they become on 20 land, on dry land, they will become -- they die pretty 21 quickly, and so they -- I'm worried that the scales of 22 the fish will start gathering dangerous ingredients, so 23 that's a concern that I have. 24 A VALERIE BERTRAND: If it is okay, Mr. 25 Chairman, I would like Randy to answer that question 26 either now or at his talk. The effects on fish are more DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00090 1 addressed by my colleague Randy. 2 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Go ahead. 3 RANDY BAKER: Okay, thanks. Randy Baker. 4 That's a good question, and I appreciate the 5 concerns of local people regarding fish health. 6 To prevent that from occurring, what is proposed is 7 that all of the fish be taken out of the area that's 8 being dewatered before any tailings are being put in, so 9 that all of the fish would be taken out of those lakes 10 and distributed to the community or perhaps put into 11 other lakes, and that is yet to be decided. But there 12 will be no exposure of fish to any contaminated 13 tailings. 14 SIMONE TOOKOOME: Yes, I understood. I do 15 understand. Yeah, I understand, no doubt, you know, the 16 fish will still be edible. I'm not trying -- I'm not 17 going to try with my own fellow Inuit. It seems 18 that there only -- is seems to be only a couple of sets 19 a family members who are cousins and in-laws, it seems, 20 and that I know, you know, the -- you know, knowing that 21 they are a number of them, I'm not hurt, I just wanted 22 to get clarification on that. And so, you know, I'm not 23 trying to hurt anyone, it would be nice if I could be 24 answered on that question -- on that concern. 25 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 26 A RANDY BAKER: I'm not quite sure what the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00091 1 question was. 2 INTERPRETER: The question is on Inuit 3 employees that are working for Cumberland that seem to 4 be -- most of them family members and when there are 5 other Inuit who are not part of the employees there who 6 are not family members, it seems to be a close-knit 7 family members that are only working up at Cumberland, 8 that's a concern, and he wanted the answer as to why 9 that is. 10 RANDY BAKER: I think the question was 11 regarding there is a small number of people working at 12 Cumberland, and I will let Craig answer that question. 13 CRAIG GOODINGS: I thank you for your 14 person. 15 The group of people you see with us today represent 16 only a small portion of the total number of people that 17 have worked at Cumberland. In total, we average on 18 average of about 30 different people working at 19 Cumberland, and I could certainly produce a list, which 20 we do have for you to look at if you would like to see. 21 They are not all from the same family members though, I 22 think, you will find. Thank you. Matna. 23 Q SIMONE TOOKOOME: You know, if the list is 24 going to be written in Innuktituk, I will accept them. 25 If they are written in English, I won't . 26 A CRAIG GOODINGS: We have staff who read DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00092 1 Innuktituk, and I think it is probably in both 2 languages. 3 SIMONE TOOKOOME: Thank you very much for the 4 clarification. 5 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any questions 6 from the Board members regarding the presentation? 7 Thank you for your presentation. We will carry on 8 with Cumberland's other presentations. 9 PRESENTATION BY PROPONENT ON AQUATICS & FISHERIES 10 RANDY BAKER: Thanks for letting me 11 address the Board. I apologize for the title of this 12 slide, it is wrong. It is supposed to be regarding this 13 week's presentation to NIRB. 14 My name is Randy Baker. I am an aquatic ecologist, 15 a fisheries biologist. I have been working in the 16 Arctic for about 25 years. I have had the good fortune 17 to have worked at the Baker Lake community and the 18 Meadowbank project since 1997 working with a number of 19 people from town on the project lakes that Cumberland 20 Resources Meadowbank project has targeted as a gold 21 deposit. 22 This cover photo or cover picture indicates what is 23 sort of typical of many of the lakes in the local 24 region. There are very pristine lakes, very little, if 25 any, human activity on them. 26 You can see the shorelines here are very rocky. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00093 1 There is no plants living in the water. If you can see 2 in the water, you will see that most of the shorelines 3 are quite rocky with lots of bedrock and large grain 4 size or boulder-type material. 5 During the course of my work over the last eight or 6 nine years now, we have done a fair bit of work on all 7 of the lakes potentially affected by the project, as 8 well as a number of other lakes outside of the area 9 potentially affected by the project to try to put these 10 lakes or the features of these lakes in context with 11 other lakes. 12 During the course of my work, we have looked at the 13 quality or the chemistry of the surface water in the 14 lakes. We have looked at the chemistry of the 15 sediments, that is the mud that's in the bottom of the 16 lake. 17 The water and the mud support the small animals 18 that small fish feed on, so these are the plankton or 19 the small animals living in the water column, and the 20 bottom-dwelling animals are called benthic 21 invertebrates. These are an important component of the 22 food chain of these lakes. These food items, of course, 23 support the fish populations that we are all concerned 24 about. 25 The last aspect of this is fish habitat. Fish 26 habitat is a term given to describe all of the features DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00094 1 of the lake put together, the quality of the water, the 2 quality of the sediment that the animals live in, the 3 temperature, the oxygen, the kind of rock or material 4 that is there to provide spawning habitat or shelter or 5 feeding for fish. 6 So we have to try and understand all of these 7 components to understand the nature of the fish 8 communities that live there, and then we can determine 9 how the mine might affect those communities and how we 10 can mitigate or help prevent some of those impacts and 11 how to preserve fish habitat after the mine is finished 12 so that these lakes do not suffer any long-term decline 13 in their ability to produce fish. So this was the 14 objective of my studies and my relationship with 15 Cumberland. 16 This is a photo showing Tom Mannik and another 17 assistant of ours collecting water from the lakes. Now, 18 you always pick a nice day to do this, to take these 19 photos. Most of the time, of course, it is not like 20 this, it is windy and wavy and cloudy, and it snows 21 sometimes, so we should pay more attention to taking 22 pictures when it is not so nice out. 23 The other aspect, and this is a very important 24 aspect of the study, is to look at the sediment 25 chemistry. Now, here on the left we are using a small 26 clam shell or grab sampler. When you send this to the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00095 1 bottom of the lake, and you can get -- come up with a 2 big pile of mud. 3 And you can see that this orangey colour, that is 4 the rusty oxidized surface layer of the bottom. And Val 5 talked about how these metals or these rocks rust, and 6 this is evidence of it. 7 Even the mud on the bottom of the lake gets rusty, 8 and this is simply indicative of the natural level of 9 metals that occur there. And within this mud, of 10 course, live many animals. 11 What we do with this mud when we get it to the 12 surface, besides analyzing it for chemistry, we also 13 sieve it, so putting it through a small sieve and filter 14 out all of the animals that live there. So we have done 15 this at many locations throughout the lakes over many 16 years to try and understand the abundance and the 17 diversity of animals that live in the mud. And you can 18 see here these small little tubes, these are small 19 little houses that insect larvae build from the sediment 20 particles. And they live in the lake for one or two 21 years and they hatch and emerge through the water and 22 fly around, and they are called choronomids, many of 23 them. Also, of course, mosquitos and black fly larvae 24 of which we are very familiar, also they spend most of 25 their life in the water before they hatch and fly around 26 and bite us. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00096 1 But these animals are very important as food for 2 fish while they live in the water, but they are also 3 important food for birds, for example, when they fly out 4 of the water. 5 This is a slide showing how we would sample for 6 animals living in the water column. Now, when you look 7 in the water, it appears very, very clear, and of course 8 it is. But within it, if you use a net and pull it 9 through the water, again you filter out many small not 10 quite microscopic animals, and water column, you know, 11 has a reasonable number of these. And fish like Arctic 12 char or juvenile lake trout or char will eat these very 13 small little animals, and that's their primary food 14 source. So we also look at the abundance and diversity 15 of these animals in our study lakes and compare them to 16 other lakes. 17 As I mentioned, of course, this -- these food 18 components are very important for our fish populations. 19 This is a photograph of two Arctic char that were caught 20 from Second Portage Lake last summer, and those Arctic 21 char are landlocked. They do not run to the ocean, they 22 are trapped in these lakes. 23 This is a photograph of a fairly large lake trout. 24 We were very sensitive to try and avoid affecting 25 fish populations in these lakes by fishing too much. 26 These lakes are fairly nutrient poor. That is, they DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00097 1 don't produce a lot of food every year, so we were 2 forced with a trade-off between studying the population 3 and studying it to death, for example, or studying it 4 too much that you would adversely affect a population. 5 So we were very careful in terms of not taking too 6 many fish. Whenever we did take fish, we tried as much 7 as possible to provide them to local residents 8 sometimes, sometimes as food for the camp. 9 One thing we are doing here, as a bit of an aside, 10 my colleague here is putting a small needle in this 11 fish, and we are using this technique to take a small 12 tissue sample, a small piece of muscle from this fish 13 that has been anaesthetized with a natural anaesthetic 14 made from cloves. So we would take this fish out of the 15 water, take a small piece of muscle and put it back in 16 the water, and we would analyze this muscle for metal 17 concentrations. So this was a new technique that we 18 started to develop within these lakes to try and 19 minimize affecting fish populations too much. 20 What really, of course, is most important is the 21 habitat for these fish. If you don't have the habitat 22 elements, good water quality, good sediment quality, 23 food for fish, structure in the lakes, you don't have 24 fish populations. And this simply shows, you know, a 25 couple of stream channels in the local project area. 26 So one of the challenges that we have got, because DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00098 1 we are draining parts of lakes, you are, in this case of 2 Second Portage Lake, eliminating that area as habitat, 3 so that is a -- would be recognized as a loss of 4 habitat. We have to try to replace or compensate for 5 that habitat loss when the mine is finished to make sure 6 that we have as much habitat that is productive for fish 7 after the mine as existed there before the mine. 8 To briefly summarize our studies, the results from 9 our studies, the project lakes, Second Portage, Third 10 Portage, Vault Lake, these are what we call headwater 11 lakes. These are lakes that exist at the very top end 12 of the watershed of the Quoich River. There are no 13 lakes and no rivers that flow into these lakes. These 14 are isolated headwater lakes, and they are connected to 15 each other by small channels. 16 These channels freeze to the bottom during 17 wintertime, and even during springtime, they have 18 limited flow between the lakes, and it is difficult for 19 fish to move between the lakes. 20 These lakes are also, as I have said earlier, 21 nutrient poor. They lack in the nutrients that are 22 necessary to produce lots of fish. That's not to say 23 that there aren't goodfish populations in the lake, 24 there are, but they are old and they grow very slowly. 25 One notable feature about this watershed of the 26 Quoich River, it flows into Chesterfield Inlet many DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00099 1 kilometres downstream from where the project is, and 2 there is an impassable falls, St. Clair Falls, on the 3 downstream end of the Quoich River that does not allow 4 Arctic char from the sea to access any of these lakes. 5 This is a map that shows the project area. This is 6 Goose Island and what might be the Goose pit and the 7 Second Portage tailings facility. 8 This is Third Portage Lake. There is a south 9 basin, a north basin and an east basin. Water from 10 Third Portage Lake all flows via these two or three 11 small channels into Second Portage Lake. Vault Lake, 12 where the other deposit is located, flows into Wally 13 Lake. 14 Water from here flows through this small lake 15 system to join with water from Third Portage at the 16 lower end of Second. All of the water from the project 17 flows via this single channel into the upper waters of 18 Tehek Lake. 19 What this map shows, all of these little dots and 20 squares are locations where over a number of years, 21 since 1996, we have collected water for chemistry, 22 sediment, benthic animals, zooplankton, and the next 23 slide will show where we would have collected fish 24 populations. 25 So this map zooms out a bit and shows a larger 26 area. These are our study lakes here, and each of these DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00100 1 little circles indicates where, since 1997, we have 2 conducted surveys to examine fish communities. So we 3 have used gill nets and minnow traps, primarily, to 4 capture fish to try and understand what their population 5 structure is. So we look at length, weight, age, diet 6 of fish, and also the quality of the tissue. 7 So we have taken pieces of muscle from the fish and 8 sent them to a laboratory and analyzed them for metals. 9 And we find that the fish communities here are 10 relatively very, very healthy. They are old but 11 slow-growing fish populations. 12 So we think we have well characterized this -- the 13 fish within the project lakes relative to some of the 14 other lakes in the area. Pipe Dream, and here is my 15 Innuktituk, Inugugualuit Lake that flows north to the 16 Meadowbank river system, into the Arctic drainage. 17 The fish communities here are relatively simple, 18 they are dominated by lake trout. And they are smaller 19 numbers or amounts of round whitefish and landlocked 20 Arctic char. There are few other fish species. We have 21 only seen two or three burbot, and they are very small 22 fish, sculpin and nine-spine stickleback that exist in 23 these lakes, and they are small fish that are sometimes 24 eaten by bigger fish. We do not have any spring 25 spawning species like grayling or suckers. 26 As I mentioned earlier, the fish habitat is very DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00101 1 important. The surface waters between zero metres or 2 the surface and to 3 or 4 metres are very coarse, they 3 are dominated by boulders and large rocks or cobble. 4 Below those depths, so below 4 metres in depth, to about 5 8 metres in depth, there is a transition from large rock 6 size to small rock size, going from boulders, cobbles, 7 gradually into a sandy silt sediment. 8 At depths greater than about 7 or 8 metres, the 9 sediment or the bottom mud is very much like I showed 10 you in the first two or three slides. It is very fine, 11 mostly silt or -- sorry, mostly clay, some very thick 12 heavy stuff. 13 The kind of habitat and its distribution in the 14 lakes is very important, and one of our challenges or 15 tasks was to try and understand how these different 16 habitats were distributed through the project's lakes 17 and how the project itself might affect that. 18 One last bullet here notes that large 19 boulder-cobble habitat that is in shoals or platforms 20 attached to islands or parts of the mainland are very 21 important for fish species. These use these areas to 22 spawn, as nursing areas for their young, shelter for all 23 fish and as feeding habitat. So those areas were 24 identified as being the most important. 25 How we did this was challenging. And I will show 26 you just in the next slide or two how we accomplished DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00102 1 this. But basically we have very good air photos of all 2 of the lakes, and these were looked at through what's 3 called stereoscopic or through a microscope that allows 4 you to see sort of three-dimensional shapes in the 5 lakes, and we had very good resolution. We would see 6 very clearly through the water because it is so clear, 7 even from the air photos. 8 We then went out and took underwater video 9 photography of many of the representative habitat areas 10 so that we could relate what we saw from the air photos 11 to a video screen. 12 This is a photograph of the lake. Now, imagine if 13 you could look through this through a good quality photo 14 through a microscope, you can actually see quite a bit 15 of detail. These blue areas here are greater than about 16 8 or 9 metres deep, and you can see submerged shoals, 17 you could see platforms here. You can see channels 18 between shoals that exist. So we could identify what we 19 determined to be important habitat in the lakes. 20 This is the discharge channel between Third Portage 21 Lake down here and Second Portage. These red dots 22 indicate areas where we had took underwater video 23 photography. So we put all of this information together 24 into our map. This is the north basin of Third Portage 25 Lake, this is the Goose development, the Portage 26 development and the future tailings facility. This area DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00103 1 will be temporarily lost as fish habitat. This area 2 will be permanently lost as fish habitat. 3 The red and orange colours indicate areas that we 4 feel are high value or moderate value habitat. So we 5 can compare the abundance of the habitat that's being 6 affected by the project relative to the same kinds of 7 habitat that exist elsewhere in these lakes. 8 And this is our challenge, you know, for the 9 Department of Fisheries and Oceans, for example, to try 10 and understand what's being lost so we can replace some 11 of that in the long term. 12 Actually, I will just go back up to this slide 13 again before I finish. Note that some of the pits here 14 extend onto land, also through here and on Goose Island. 15 This area is the tailings impoundment facility is 16 being permanently lost. I also noted earlier that the 17 fish from here and from within here will be taken out 18 before there is any development in those lakes to make 19 sure those fish are not exposed to contaminants. So 20 those fish will be taken out before any mining occurs or 21 any deposition of any waste rock or tailings happens. 22 Because this is permanently lost, but these areas 23 here will be reflooded, as Valerie indicated in her 24 presentation. So we can make sure that when these 25 areas are -- before they are reflooded, we can make sure 26 that the habitat in that area can be engineered or DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00104 1 constructed or modelled after habitat that we know is 2 good in these lakes to make sure that when they are 3 reflooded, we can gain good or valuable habitat that 4 will exist long after this mine is gone, and that's a 5 very important feature of our approach to this project. 6 So just to quickly summarize, we have been 7 conducting baseline studies on water and sediment, small 8 animals and fish since 1996. 9 We feel we have adequately addressed the -- our 10 understanding of the fish communities in these lakes, 11 and we do not have any major data gaps. 12 We will, this summer, be completing our assessment 13 of the new proposed all-weather road to ensure that we 14 identify any potential impacts associated with the 15 construction of that road to ensure that there are no 16 long-term negative effects. 17 If we are able to recover habitat at the end, we 18 will have no major residual or remaining impacts from 19 the habitat -- from the project. And the strategy for 20 replacement of lost habitat will be negotiated in 21 consultation with Baker Lake people, as well as 22 Department of Fisheries and Oceans and KIA. 23 That's it for my presentation. Matna. Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. We will take a 25 15-minute break before we do questions. 26 (BRIEF RECESS) DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00105 1 CHAIRPERSON: Okay. We will get back to 2 questions to ask for the presentation. KIA, questions 3 to the last presentation? Thank you. NTI? Thank you. 4 Department of Fisheries and Oceans? Natural Resources 5 Canada? Acres International? 6 ACRES QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON AQUATICS & FISHERIES 7 Q RAMLI HALIM: Mr. Chairman, Ramli Halim 8 with Acres International. 9 Like in this day and age, there is still some 10 people afraid of flying, and I am just wondering in your 11 proposal for the Meadowbank, there is a plan to build 12 100-metre culvert between Turn Lake and Trail Lake. 13 I was wondering how you are actually going to train 14 the fish to pass through a 100-metre tunnel, dark 15 tunnel, to move from one lake to the other one. Is it 16 realistic that in the next 10 or 15 years when during 17 the mine operation that some of the fish is not going to 18 go from one of the lake to the other lake? 19 A RANDY BAKER: That's a good question. 20 There is two parts to this question or two parts to the 21 answer, I guess. It is unrealistic to expect fish to 22 move through a long culvert, despite the fact that that 23 culvert might be designed to allow for slow water 24 velocity through it so as the fish is not prevented by 25 fast water moving through a culvert. 26 Now, at these study lakes, we do not have fish DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00106 1 species that typically move between lakes. When we have 2 done studies to try and answer this question, we have 3 seen very few fish that move, for example, between 4 Second and Third Portage, or between Vault Lake and 5 Wally Lake. Lake trout do not tend to move through 6 streams between lakes very much. 7 Having said that, though, we do recognize that this 8 is a long culvert, and I think that a recent decision 9 has been made to make this into a bridge crossing, so 10 that would eliminate that potential impact of the lack 11 or impaired movement of fish through a culvert. I think 12 it is now a bridge. 13 Q RAMLI HALIM: Okay. So if it is going to 14 be a bridge, I would assume that at the end of the 15 mining operation that you are going to remove the bridge 16 and return it back into the natural condition? 17 A RANDY BAKER: Yes. 18 RAMLI HALIM: Okay. I think that's all. 19 Thanks, Mr. Chairman. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Local 21 residents, any questions? NIRB staff, any questions? 22 Steve? 23 NIRB STAFF QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON AQUATICS & FISHERIES 24 Q STEPHEN LINES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 25 On the last slide, it says that compensation for loss of 26 fish habitat is being developed in consultation with DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00107 1 Baker Lake, DFO and KIA. Will more information on that 2 or the progress of it be supplied in the final EIS? 3 A RANDY BAKER: Thanks, Steve. We will 4 provide as much information as we can by the time the 5 final EIS is submitted. Because there will be 6 negotiations between KIA, DFO and Baker Lake, I don't 7 suppose there is a guarantee that that information might 8 be available, but as much as we know will be provided. 9 And that proposal might go on independent from the final 10 submission. 11 Q STEPHEN LINES: I just have a few more 12 questions. You spoke about earlier that the intention 13 for the outer wall of the dikes is to promote fish 14 spawning, and I'm wondering if or what the monitoring is 15 going to be to see if fish are actually using the areas 16 to spawn and to ensure that their health isn't 17 compromised from the metal leaching. 18 RANDY BAKER: That's a good question, 19 Steve. The old phrase "if you build it, they will come" 20 doesn't necessarily apply. We, you know, as humans will 21 be trying to emulate or copy nature, and we can do the 22 best we can to create habitat that we think might be 23 used by fish, but there is no guarantee. 24 Having said that, we will, of course, try and 25 monitor this by a couple of different means. During the 26 season for spawning by Arctic char or lake trout, you DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00108 1 can use fish finders or gill nets, if you need to, to 2 try and determine if you see fish aggregating near what 3 you would hope is a spawning area. So we can use some 4 tools to try and determine whether or not fish are 5 actually using this habitat. 6 The background to that answer is such that there is 7 a lot more habitat in the lakes than there is need for 8 it by fish, so that means there is an abundance of 9 habitat. And other studies in the Arctic lakes have 10 shown that if you purposefully eliminate fish from 11 spawning on a particular habitat, they will move to some 12 nearby habitat and use that to spawn. So the spawning 13 habitat, for example, is not limiting in these lakes. 14 But having said that, we will still be trying to 15 encourage as much spawning on this habitat as possible. 16 And the second part of that answer is that we will be 17 looking at the water quality in those -- in very small 18 spaces that might be used by fish eggs, so we might also 19 take an experimental approach and plant eggs on the 20 dikes and see if they survive the winter. 21 Q STEPHEN LINES: Okay. My next question is 22 related to that. As part of the mitigation measures, 23 you are proposing to increase the channel between Second 24 and Third Portage Lakes with the hopes, I guess, of 25 increasing the number of fish that move up into Third 26 Portage Lake and maybe increase the fish numbers in that DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00109 1 population to take up the habitat. And I'm wondering if 2 the low productivity of Third Portage Lake would limit 3 any increase in fish numbers and how you could monitor 4 if there are actually more fish in Third Portage Lake? 5 A RANDY BAKER: That's true, that's another 6 good question. 7 Steve's question relates to the fact that from our 8 baseline studies, we have found that Second Portage Lake 9 has about, relatively speaking, twice as many Arctic 10 char relative to the number of lake trout, as does Third 11 Portage. So there is about, I think around 30 percent 12 of fish we have caught in Second Portage are char, 13 whereas only 10 or 15 percent of the fish we catch in 14 Third Portage are char. 15 Char are more migratory than lake trout, so we were 16 hoping that because we have to modify one of the 17 channels connecting Second Portage Lake with Third 18 Portage Lake because one of the channels is being lost 19 within the Goose Island pit development, that because 20 you have a bigger channel that carries more water, there 21 is an opportunity for fish to move from Second Portage 22 to Third Portage. And we are hoping that it would be 23 beneficial for Arctic char to perhaps move into Third 24 Portage to take advantage of that large lake area. 25 Now char feed mostly on these small plankton, so 26 there is no guarantee, however, that this will actually DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00110 1 occur or that you can encourage more fish in Third 2 Portage. What is more likely to occur is that you might 3 have relatively more Arctic char and perhaps fewer white 4 fish, which are of lesser value to people than char and 5 trout. 6 Q STEPHEN LINES: Thank you. As well in your 7 presentation you showed a picture of lake sediment that 8 had undergone, I guess, some level of oxidation. And 9 from what I understand before, and this can be my own 10 misunderstanding, but from what I understand before, the 11 justification for placing some of the waste rock in the 12 Goose Pit was to, I guess, eliminate the potential for 13 that rock to oxidize. 14 But now that you have shown that their lake 15 sediment does oxidize, is there a comparison between the 16 amount of metals that are present right now in the lake 17 sediment and the amount of metals present in the waste 18 rock? And how will that affect the fish if the lake 19 sediment is actually oxidizing, and now you are placing 20 the waste rock under the water as well? 21 A RANDY BAKER: The reason why you see so 22 much oxidation or rusty colour on the sediment is for 23 two reasons. First of all, you know, metals in 24 sediment, it is very natural, so all sediments show this 25 rusty colour. These lakes in particular, I think, show 26 it more because the amount of sedimentation or the rate DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00111 1 at which new sediment accumulates on the bottom is very, 2 very slow. 3 This is because there is no rivers entering these 4 lake to carry sediment. So the rate of sedimentation is 5 very low, so that allows the small amount of oxygen 6 that's present in the water to interact with the metals 7 and cause this rusty colour. That doesn't mean there is 8 anything bad associated with it, it just changes colour. 9 It associates with oxygen. 10 Just to give you a perspective on why rock is put 11 underwater to prevent oxidation and generation of acid, 12 the amount of oxygen in the air that we breathe is about 13 21 percent. So the air surrounding us is 21 percent 14 oxygen, that is a fair amount of the proportion, you 15 know, in the air. The amount of oxygen in water is 10 16 parts per million. 17 So if I won a million dollars, and I give you 10 18 bucks, that would be the amount of oxygen that I would 19 give you if I was the rest of the water. So the 20 relative amount of oxygen in water is very, very small. 21 So that's why underwater is a good place to put a lot of 22 this rocky material because there is really relatively 23 very little oxygen to interact with. Does that answer 24 your question? 25 Q STEPHEN LINES: I just have one last one, 26 Mr. Chairman. Concerning the construction of the road, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00112 1 what specifically can you propose to look at from an 2 aquatics point of view related to impact assessment of 3 that road? 4 A RANDY BAKER: As you know, the road 5 was -- the all-weather road was proposed after we had 6 submitted our draft EIS, so there is an inadequate -- 7 inadequate survey, I guess, or information presented to 8 you regarding the effects of the road. 9 I had the opportunity of flying up that proposed 10 route on the weekend by helicopter and had a chance to 11 have a firsthand look at the route being proposed. 12 There are five bridges being planned. Currently only 13 water is flowing beneath -- within two of those 14 crossings. So during the course of the summer, we 15 propose to do a fisheries assessment or survey of each 16 of those bridge crossings, plus all of the other smaller 17 crossings that are being proposed to be crossed by 18 culverts. 19 I saw very few streams, in my opinion, that would 20 support fish at this time. One of the benefits, I 21 suppose, or lucky breaks, I guess, that this road has 22 going for it is that it runs mostly between water 23 running southeast towards Baker Lake and Chesterfield 24 Inlet and water that flows north to the back river 25 drainage that flows north to the Arctic. So this road 26 follows high ground separating both of these watersheds. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00113 1 So there are no or very few watersheds that pass from 2 the west or the east of what's being proposed for the 3 all-weather road, so that is somewhat encouraging. 4 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 5 Fisheries and Oceans? 6 DFO QUESTIONS THE PROPONENT ON AQUATICS & FISHERIES 7 Q DERRICK MOGGY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I 8 have to apologize for not being here when you initially 9 called me. I do have some questions, I have got a 10 couple. 11 I was wondering for the revised Portage waste rock 12 storage facility, is that not going to impact 13 fish-bearing waters now? 14 A RANDY BAKER: No, it is not. 15 Q DERRICK MOGGY: Thanks, Randy. I was 16 wondering if maybe you could elaborate a bit on some of 17 the sampling efforts that were directed at confirming 18 that there was no spring-spawning fish species in the 19 water courses on the project area? 20 A RANDY BAKER: Spring-spawning species are 21 things like Arctic grayling and suckers that spawn 22 during early freshet when there is lots of water in 23 streams. We have targeted these species as early in the 24 spring as we can when ice comes off the lakes. 25 We have used gill nets, and we have used hoop nets, 26 and these are nets that trap fish that move between DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00114 1 lakes. We have not seen any spring-spawning species. 2 Now, in the nine years that I have been doing work 3 there off and on -- because we didn't see any 4 spring-spawning species early on, we haven't enacted a 5 directed study as early in the spring as possible to try 6 and detect these species. Other people have done work 7 in the Quoich River watershed before us, and they have 8 not detected Arctic grayling within Tehek Lake or 9 further north. 10 That is not to say that there might not be in 11 Tehek, but the reason why people think that they are not 12 north of Tehek in the project -- Meadowbank project 13 lakes is because the stream channels between, say, 14 Second Portage and Third Portage, despite the fact you 15 have got a very large lake, Third Portage, draining into 16 Second, is that the stream channels are very small. So 17 they break very late in June, and they flow reliably 18 only for a few weeks, which is too short a time for 19 Arctic grayling to move into the streams and to spawn 20 before the water dries out. 21 Also, despite the fact you have got a lot of water 22 flowing in the stream for a few-week period, a lot of 23 this water flows between the gravel or between large 24 boulders, so it would be very difficult for fish to move 25 into these streams. 26 So there is some experimental evidence that we have DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00115 1 not found any grayling in any of the fishing gear that 2 we have used, and circumstantial evidence based on other 3 people's work and the simple -- and the cold climate and 4 the local conditions we see with the lack of stream 5 habitat in these lakes which supports the fact that we 6 don't see spring-spawning species. But we will be 7 further addressing that to address Derrick's concern 8 this spring. So we will be specifically trying to see 9 if we can find any spring-spawning species. 10 Q DERRICK MOGGY: Thanks, Randy, for that 11 response. I just noticed from Craig's presentation that 12 he did this morning there that looking at the closure 13 scenario at the end of operations there, it showed that 14 some of the dewatering dikes were -- there was going to 15 be a lot more area that was going to be removed than was 16 presented in the Draft Environmental Impact Statement. 17 And I was wondering if this is going to be considered 18 for further reducing impacts to fish habitat? 19 A CRAIG GOODINGS: The actual breaching of the 20 dikes which Cumberland hasn't really firmly been decided 21 yet. I think that there is some input from you that DFO 22 mentioned they might want more dikes taken out than we 23 had originally proposed. I think that together we will 24 come up with a reasonable closure plan that DFO will be 25 happy with. 26 Q DERRICK MOGGY: Thanks, Craig, for that DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00116 1 response. Yeah, I would certainly like -- hope the 2 company will maybe look at that possibility. 3 I have another question, it is regarding the 4 connecting channel between the Second and Third Portage 5 Lake, and part of that is to address some of the 6 additional water that will come out of the dewatered 7 impoundment areas, and it is also being proposed as 8 maybe improving access for fish into Third Portage Lake. 9 In deepening that channel, would that improve fish 10 passage without compromising water levels in Third 11 Portage Lake? 12 A RANDY BAKER: The short answer is yes, 13 and the reason is that as long as the bottom elevation 14 of that stream right at the exit of Third Portage Lake 15 is not changed so you can widen that and deepen it 16 downstream, that will ensure that water level in Third 17 Portage is not gradually drawn down. So it is very 18 important to make sure that the elevation of the exit of 19 that stream from Third Portage does not change, and that 20 can be engineered, and that will be done in the final 21 design phase. 22 Q DERRICK MOGGY: Thanks, Randy. Will that 23 actually improve the ability of water to flow out of 24 there as a result? 25 A RANDY BAKER: It will, because there are 26 three channels that separate these two lakes. One of DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00117 1 the channels, the eastern-most channel will be absorbed 2 by the Goose Pit. That channel typically handles about 3 50 percent of the flow between these two lakes, which 4 means that the remaining two channels have to handle 50 5 percent of the flow that they never used to handle. So 6 they will necessarily, one of them at least, will have 7 to be altered, that is widened and deepened at the lower 8 end to accommodate the flow that was normally handled by 9 three channels, now being handled primarily by one or 10 maybe two channels. 11 Q DERRICK MOGGY: Thanks, Randy. I had one 12 more question. I was just wondering if any of your fish 13 sampling had been correlated or matched up with some of 14 your -- with your fish habitat model? For example, you 15 identified on one of the screens there that there was 16 high value habitat in certain areas. And if there was 17 fish sampling done in those areas, would you see more 18 fish in that area? 19 A RANDY BAKER: The short answer to that is 20 no. That can be done. Derrick and I have talked about 21 this, and I think in the future we will try and relate 22 how many fish you catch over what we have identified as 23 high value habitat. So for the final EIS, we have 24 agreed to go back and try and make some of that 25 correlation. Having said that, it is typically not done 26 at this level of study to try and correlate past what's DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00118 1 called catch-pointed effort or the amount of fish you 2 catch in a net with habitat that you plan to compensate 3 for. But we will be looking more closely at that for 4 the final EIS. 5 Q DERRICK MOGGY: Thanks, Randy. One other 6 question was some of those areas you identified that are 7 land right now, and the port will be excavated out of 8 there and they will become water at the end of life of 9 the mine there. How valuable would you consider that 10 habitat after closure? 11 A RANDY BAKER: Currently that habitat is a 12 mixture of low, medium and high value. 13 At the end of mine life, we have the opportunity to 14 try and take some of that low-value habitat, that 15 basically habitat that's deep and contains only mud and 16 no structure to it, no large boulders or spawning 17 habitat that fish would use. So we can take that 18 habitat and fill it in with clean rock and create shoals 19 and reefs and habitat structures that would be 20 beneficial to fish in the long term. 21 So we, while it is dry, we have an opportunity to 22 turn poorer quality habitat into good quality habitat. 23 So that is our strategy behind trying to make sure we 24 don't have a net loss of habitat or the productivity of 25 that habitat after mine life. 26 Q DERRICK MOGGY: Okay. Thanks, Randy. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00119 1 Sorry, maybe I misphrased what I was asking. Right now 2 there is currently areas that are out of the water, they 3 wouldn't be necessarily considered fish habitat. But 4 during the construction of your pit, though, you will 5 excavate through those and they will become water. And 6 at the end of operations there, I am just wondering what 7 the prediction is for the value of that habitat is? 8 A RANDY BAKER: Well, the prediction is 9 that wherever possible, we will try and make high-value 10 habitat out of that. 11 In our current plan, we have not included any of 12 the pits below the 3 metres depth as high-value or 13 moderate-value habitat. We have assumed that deep areas 14 are low-value and will remain so, but areas that are -- 15 that used to be land and are now water, we will try as 16 much as possible to capture new habitat and make that 17 more valuable for fish. 18 Q DERRICK MOGGY: Okay. And last question is 19 do fish use low value habitat? 20 A RANDY BAKER: Yes. 21 DERRICK MOGGY: Thank you. 22 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Were there any 23 questions, other questions from NIRB staff? Thank you. 24 Board members, any questions? 25 BOARD MEMBERS QUESTION PROPONENT ON AQUATICS & FISHERIES 26 Q LUCASSIE ARRAGUTAINAQ: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00120 1 Maybe two things, one is what kind of thing are you 2 going to use to remove the fish from those lakes? 3 And maybe just one other comment, the plants and 4 the bottom-dwelling animals that's going to be 5 eliminated, have they ever been of any importance of the 6 food chain and to compensated somehow? They are not 7 important? Yes, they are? No? 8 A RANDY BAKER: To answer the first 9 question, fish will be taken out of the lakes using 10 whatever means possible to do so as quickly and 11 efficiently as possible, so that will be mostly gill 12 nets and maybe trap nets. 13 It is yet undecided whether those fish will be 14 taken in their entirety to Baker Lake or some of them 15 transplanted to nearby lakes and the rest taken to Baker 16 for food. 17 Your second question was relating to the benthic 18 animals, the small animals that are part of the food 19 chain. The habitat for those animals will be eliminated 20 or some of it will be. So when we create new habitat to 21 replace what's being lost, we have got that in mind that 22 we want to provide, you know, suitable habitat that's 23 useful for food for fish, because ultimately, too, 24 that's what sustains the fish, as you know. Does that 25 answer your question? 26 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00121 1 questions from Board members? Thank you for your -- oh, 2 go ahead. 3 RESIDENT QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON AQUATICS & FISHERIES 4 Q MIKE ALEIK: Hello, again. I was here 5 this morning, remember? My question -- first question 6 was I had it for the last two hours, I think it was one 7 of the ladies there that was sitting here, something 8 about the mine design. Do you have that map? Could you 9 show us, please? Yeah, something like that. 10 I don't know who to direct the question, either to 11 her or you. That's you, right? The reason why I didn't 12 come here earlier is I was stopped this morning, so you 13 got me into that, so you have to make me feel 14 comfortable because I am from here. 15 Anyway, my question to you, that lady there, was 16 supposed to be something to do with EIS, Environmental 17 Impact Statement, right? Are there any archaeological 18 sites like tent rings, Inukshuit or graveyards around 19 that area? And if there are any, how are you going to 20 deal with those? Can you answer that, please? 21 A CRAIG GOODINGS: I would answer that for 22 you. The answer is there are tent rings, and the people 23 that were -- Jacob beside me here, he has now had to go 24 because there was an emergency at home, but he used to 25 actually live around that area, which is one of the 26 reasons he is working for us. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00122 1 But with work of Hattie and also Debra Webster, we 2 were able to map out all the sites of importance, and we 3 have designed the mine to avoid all areas of impact. 4 Q MIKE ALEIK: Oh, that's good, yeah. 5 Okay. And, okay, another question, something about DFO, 6 Department of Fisheries and whatever it was. That guy 7 that was just standing here, you or you show us about 8 that red line along the shoreline, you had it. Could 9 you show that to us, the map with the red line along the 10 shoreline? Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Very good. 11 That's the one, thank you very much. Are those islands 12 or lakes, or what? 13 A RANDY BAKER: That's a good question. 14 The green here is the land, and these thin red lines or 15 orange lines represent high-value or moderate-value 16 habitat, and that is dictated by, you know, in here in 17 particular, you have got shoals or reef structures that 18 we feel are important for fish, and that's -- you can 19 see that in many areas of the lakes. 20 These are areas that are greater than 2 metres 21 deep, except for right along the shoreline, because that 22 freezes with ice, that are important for food, for fish 23 or for spawning. So that's what this distribution of 24 these colours means in the lakes. 25 This area here, for example, is very deep, it might 26 be 20 metres, 25 metres deep, and just mud habitat. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00123 1 Q MIKE ALEIK: Those red lines represents 2 habitat, animals, right, sik sik, fox or whatever is in 3 there? If that happened to be -- is that the lake or 4 the land or what is it? I mean, the whole map of the 5 red line, what is it? Is it an island? 6 A RANDY BAKER: It is not a great map, 7 because it is -- the water isn't blue, and I'm sorry 8 about that. But this green here, this is the land. 9 This is north arm of Second Portage Lake right here. 10 This is the east basin of Third Portage and the north 11 basin. 12 Q MIKE ALEIK: So there is a lot of gold 13 out in that area, right? Is that true? My question is, 14 there is gold in there, around that habitat area? 15 A RANDY BAKER: That's right. So the gold 16 that Meadowbank wants to get is within here, this is the 17 Goose Pit and the Portage pit. And this slide shows the 18 overlay of where the pits will be relative to the 19 habitat that is either of poor quality or high quality. 20 Q MIKE ALEIK: I see. Okay. Thank you. 21 Another one, if you don't mind, can you show us 22 that deep pit mine thing where they have a proposal of 23 open-pit mine? I saw it in the map. Could you show us 24 that, please? I'll come to that when you show it. 25 Yeah, yeah, that, yeah, see that -- no, no, no, you just 26 had it. No. Yeah, that one. In that hole, those DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00124 1 holes, big holes, that's where you want to dig all of 2 the gold out, right? 3 My question is if you -- is this going to be even 4 in the wintertime? Okay, I think my first question 5 would be how are you going to deal with that in the dead 6 of winter, like when the storm and all that? I mean, in 7 the wintertime. Summertime is okay. So how are you 8 going to -- when the mine opens, right, how are you 9 going to do about it? I think you will have trouble in 10 the winter. I don't know, so that's my question. And I 11 think you have to answer that somehow, you know. 12 A BRAD THIELE: Perhaps I could refer you 13 to other mines that are similar. The Diavik and Ekati 14 mines are examples of open-pit mines at similar 15 latitudes. In the case of Diavik mining and open pit 16 under a lake, by having constructed dewatering dikes, 17 pumping the water out and then mining the pit. And they 18 mine year round, and we expect to do the same. 19 Q MIKE ALEIK: Even when there is a lot of 20 snow in there after the storm in the wintertime? 21 A BRAD THIELE: Yeah, I think what you have 22 to understand is the mining is around the clock every 23 day all year. So there is never an accumulation of 24 snow. You are moving material with large equipment on a 25 continuous basis with large loaders, large trucks, and 26 there is never really time for an accumulation of snow DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00125 1 in the pit. 2 In the spring with the freshet, the water flows 3 have been estimated, and we have, in the plan, pumping 4 capacity to deal with that, the same as the diamond 5 mines do. 6 Q MIKE ALEIK: Thank you very much. 7 One more, last one. If one of you, can you answer this 8 one? Once the mine opens and the road comes from 9 Meadowbank area to Baker Lake and there will be trucks 10 going back and forth, right, are there going to be 11 trucks with open -- where they dump up all of those ore 12 rocks and everything coming from Meadowbank to Baker 13 Lake, are those trucks going to be opened? That's the 14 number 1 question. I will ask the other one after, you 15 answer me this one first. You have to answer this one 16 first. 17 A BRAD THIELE: The trucks that travel that 18 road will be carrying freight, mostly in cartons or 19 containers to the site and coming back generally empty. 20 There is no bulk product from our mine, just gold bars 21 about the size of loaves of bread, one a day, and we 22 will fly them out. 23 MIKE ALEIK: So they are going to be in 24 containers, right, the gold? Okay that, I was worried 25 about that one, that's why. Mostly I came here -- I may 26 have other questions, but I'm not going to keep you long DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00126 1 because there are other people here. When I have some 2 more, I will come, whatever comes to mind. 3 Thank you very much. Have a nice day. 4 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Thank you for 5 your presentation. We will move on to the next 6 presentations from Cumberland. 7 PROPONENT PRESENTATION ON WILDLIFE & TERRESTRIAL 8 MARTIN GEBAUER: Hello, my name is Martin 9 Gebauer, and I know people are getting tired, and that's 10 why they kept the most exciting presentation to the 11 last. 12 I have been involved in the wildlife and 13 terrestrial surveys for the last four years, and you can 14 see a slide here of two of the members that are 15 attending, Jacob Ikinlik and Tom Mannik. And we never 16 take pictures in nice weather because we never have nice 17 weather. 18 But, anyways, these people have been very helpful 19 in all of the surveys that we are doing and continuing 20 to do. 21 What we did is we looked at what we call 22 terrestrial ecosystem components, which are basically 23 the things that are important to the people of Baker 24 Lake, some of the regulators, and we took a closer look 25 at these various aspects that are listed here. So we 26 looked at the vegetation, the plants. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00127 1 We looked at ungulates, which are the caribou and 2 muskox, predators which are grizzly bear, wolverine and 3 wolves. Small mammals, and you can see some of these 4 written here, I won't repeat them all. Raptors, which 5 are predatory birds, waterfowl and then other breeding 6 birds, which are some of the smaller ones you see around 7 Baker Lake here even. So I will talk about some of 8 these aspects fairly quickly. 9 What we did is something called ecological land 10 classification. Basically it is mapping the kind of 11 plants that are on the land. There is tundra, there is 12 health tundra, there is areas with sedges. And so we 13 went ahead and mapped these areas within what's called 14 the local study area, and this is an area immediately 15 around the mine. 16 So this is -- the circle here represents our local 17 study area around the main site, and the other one is 18 the Vault site. You can see various colours. 19 Unfortunately it is not very clear here, but each colour 20 represents a different kind of plant community or 21 habitat type. And we also do this for a larger area 22 called the regional study area, which up to this point 23 has been 100 by 100 kilometres square. 24 So you can see this area here, there is the 25 Meadowbank camp, Baker Lake is down here. 26 Caribou, of course, are important to the people of DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00128 1 Baker Lake, and I am going to spend most of my time 2 talking about those today. 3 This dart here represents the Meadowbank camp, and 4 one thing we do know is that there are no known calving 5 areas in the vicinity of the Meadowbank camp. We have 6 the Beverly herd calving grounds shown here. We have 7 the Ahiak or Queen Maud herd up here. This is up in the 8 Boothia, Wager Bay, Lorillard, and this is the 9 Qamanirjuak herd here. So we are not very close to any 10 known calving grounds. 11 Here is just a quick slide showing some of the 12 designated production areas for Qamanirjuaq herd here 13 and the Beverly up here. And, again, the camp is shown 14 here, about 70 kilometres north of Baker Lake. 15 Not a very good slide because of too much 16 information, but very quickly we have conducted eight 17 surveys in this large regional study area, and the 18 circles represent the number of caribou that we saw in 19 our aerial surveys. The smaller circles are 1 or 5 20 animals, and the larger circles could be 30 or more. 21 This top corner here, the top left represents surveys in 22 February and March. And as you can see, we are seeing 23 quite a few caribou at that time of year. 24 In April and May, also reasonable number of caribou 25 but certainly less than what we have seen in the middle 26 of winter. Down in the lower left, getting into the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00129 1 summertime, very few caribou seem to spend June and July 2 in this 100 by 100 kilometre area. 3 In the fall, we, again, see more animals in August 4 and September. And as you can see from our surveys, 5 anyways, they seem to be concentrated in the western 6 portion of the study area. 7 I will speak briefly about where some of these 8 animals may be coming from. Actually, sorry, before I 9 do that, I will just mention the numbers of caribou I 10 had indicated before, this is a scale from February, 11 March, April, May, June, through to September. And as 12 you can see, our estimations in February are over 20,000 13 animals, decreasing through to summertime and then 14 increasing again in the fall. 15 Where are these animals coming from? There is 16 several herds that occur in this area at different times 17 of year. We suspect the larger numbers of caribou that 18 we see in the fall, this is middle of August and 19 September, are part of the Beverly herd. So there has 20 been some question that the animals from the Ahiak herd 21 may be coming through here as well. 22 The Qamanirjuaq herd appears, for the most part, 23 restricted to the south of Baker Lake. 24 Here is some data from Mitch Campbell out of 25 Arviat, and he has radio collared animals in the Wager 26 Bay herd. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00130 1 Here is the Meadowbank camp here with this purple 2 star. And as you can see in the winter, anyways, or 3 certain times of year, not the calving season, the 4 animals from the Wager Bay herd come and spend some of 5 the time in the winter around the Meadowbank camp. 6 Similarly, this is the Lorillard herd. The red 7 indicates the primary calving area, and then this is our 8 study area here again with the purple star, and, again, 9 animals are using this area at some times in the year, 10 particular in the wintertime. 11 And we also have some indications that the animals 12 may be coming down from the north, the Boothia and 13 Simpson peninsula. And certainly one caribou that was 14 radio collared up in this area has shown up in the 15 Meadowbank vicinity. 16 We have also, we have looked at -- on our aerial 17 surveys, we have looked at a number of different 18 species. I will use one more example here, muskox, but 19 we also mapped all grizzly bear encounters or 20 observations, of which we have very, very few, I think 21 only two in the last ten years, and wolves and other 22 things like that we have also mapped. 23 But here is just another example of muskox. Again, 24 the 100 kilometre by 100 kilometre study area. Most of 25 the muskox up in the northwestern part of this area up 26 along the Meadowbank River, and some reasonable numbers DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00131 1 at different times of the year, 30 plus in some of the 2 herds. 3 We also have conducted breeding bird surveys. Here 4 is some rock ptarmigans on the left and a common red 5 pull on the right. 6 And here is a local study area, again, just showing 7 some of the plots where we have conducted our breeding 8 bird surveys. They are 400 by 400 metre plots, and 9 there is a methodology that we use that is being 10 developed by the Canadian Wildlife Service. 11 So we have lots of information on the smaller 12 breeding birds, and we also have done raptor nest 13 surveys, water bird nesting surveys in this area, and 14 for the most parts have seen very little activity from 15 both of those species groups. 16 And very quickly, looking at some of the potential 17 impacts of the mine, we look at the loss of habitat 18 because of the mine facilities and also the reduced -- 19 what we call the reduced habitat effectiveness which is 20 a result of sensory disturbance. So an animal like a 21 grizzly bear may not come within 500 metres or a 22 kilometre of the mine even though the habitat or the 23 food may be there. So we look at that as well in our 24 impact assessment. 25 The mine may deflect animals from their normal 26 travel routes, but again we don't see any major DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00132 1 migration routes through our area, may disturb nesting 2 birds. There is a concern about reduced health, and 3 this is related to contamination, perhaps, in the 4 tailing ponds that some birds may have access to or 5 perhaps caribou that are drinking the water. 6 A concern about mortality, animals that may get 7 killed on the road. Increased depredation, which is -- 8 I will leave that one for now, and habituation like 9 Arctic foxes that get used to people and spend a lot of 10 time in the vicinity of the mine and become quite used 11 to some of the opportunities there. 12 So these are the potential impacts. A lot of these 13 impacts won't be realized because of the mitigation and 14 management plan that we are going to be implementing. 15 Some of the mitigation, some of our mitigation plan 16 are the ways we will avoid the impacts that I went 17 through briefly, are to keep the footprint or the size 18 of the mine as small as possible, to educate the 19 employees and the staff in environmental programs 20 underway and also the wildlife that they may encounter 21 and how they should be interacting with them. 22 There will be no feeding of animals, and there will 23 be no hunting on -- within the Meadowbank site by mine 24 employees. 25 For birds that may be attracted to the tailings 26 pond or caribou that are close to an area that has DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00133 1 potentially highly contaminated levels we will be using 2 aversive techniques, which means scaring animals away or 3 shooing them away from these areas of potential concern. 4 And then we will skip down to burning garbage and 5 foods, which is really quite important to try to avoid 6 attracting grizzly bears and wolverine that have 7 sensitive noses and can come from far away. 8 We want to avoid and can avoid, I think, the 9 problems at some of the mines where these animals 10 inevitably had to be destroyed some of these animals 11 because of the familiarity with these substances. 12 And then progressive reclamation, revegetating 13 areas that have been disturbed and then adaptive 14 management, as we see things we didn't expect or through 15 our monitoring program, if we encounter things to adapt 16 accordingly and come up with other management scenarios 17 if we need to. 18 And then a monitoring program, of course, is very 19 important just to see how the mine really is impacting 20 the wildlife and if our mitigation and management is 21 working. And here is just some of the things that we 22 will be looking at, and I will just read through them 23 quickly without too much explanation. 24 We will be monitoring how much habitat is lost, 25 contaminant levels in vegetation, we will be continuing 26 to do our surveys for wildlife to see where they are DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00134 1 distributed and how many of them there are. Bird 2 nesting surveys, we will be asking the staff and 3 employees to report all of their sightings and looking 4 at wildlife behaviour, and, again, managing in an 5 adaptive manner. 6 So that very briefly is the wildlife and the 7 terrestrial program that we have. So, matna, thank you 8 very much. 9 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your 10 presentation. Any questions from the KIA? Go ahead. 11 RESIDENTS QUESTION PROPONENT ON WILDLIFE & TERRESTRIAL 12 Q MIKE ALEIK: Hello, again. I am very 13 pleased that I came here this morning. 14 I am very concerned like you about habitat and 15 animals and all of those things, wildlife. Once the 16 mine opens, how are the -- it is a very sensitive area 17 all over that area where animals are, so there are two 18 ways of interest, chasing the gold out and Meadowbank, 19 that's a problem that you are going to be dealing with, 20 right? That is through -- and I am addressing that to 21 the company. 22 And the other one is this, how are you going to 23 deal with -- you are going to change the migration 24 routes of foxes, caribou and whatnot in there, once the 25 mines opens, can you answer that? How, you know, it is 26 going to affect the wildlife and everything, please DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00135 1 answer that one. 2 A MARTIN GEBAUER: No, that is true. There is 3 no way of avoiding some impact to wildlife that are in 4 that area, and that's one of the reasons why we take a 5 close look at some of the features of the habitat that 6 are of most importance. So we look for denning sites of 7 wolves, foxes and grizzly bears, areas where birds might 8 be breeding and at highly concentrated levels. And, for 9 example, peregrine falcons, if there is a nesting site, 10 we would have various plans in place to avoid impact. 11 So we do those surveys for that particular reason, but 12 there are -- ultimately there will be some impact which 13 is small, is localized, and we don't believe is 14 significant on a regional or greater basis. 15 I hope that answers your question. 16 Q MIKE ALEIK: Alex. Okay. You did, 17 yeah. 18 I have two minds about it. I am very concerned of 19 this, that the talk there about wildlife. And the 20 second one, the company, you know, Cumberland, I am very 21 interested in that too. I think people like you guys, 22 we have to somehow deal with it, it is not going to 23 affect only one little project, it is going to affect 24 not only the whole -- not only Baker Lake, but maybe all 25 of Canada, who knows, once the mine opens. I support 26 that too, so don't worry what I am saying here, okay. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00136 1 A MARTIN GEBAUER: I should say that we have a 2 -- we are going to have a very comprehensive monitoring 3 program to see what our impacts are going to be. I 4 would say the majority of that monitoring will be done 5 by local Baker Lake or people from outside people. So 6 there will be a real attempt to take a very close look 7 at the impacts the mine is having and to minimize that 8 impact wherever we can. 9 MIKE ALEIK: Okay. Thank you more now, 10 whatever comes to mind, I will -- thank you very much. 11 MARTIN GEBAUER: Thank you for your 12 questions. 13 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. We will go back 14 to KIA, if you have any questions? 15 KIA QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON WILDLIFE & TERRESTRIAL 16 Q STEVE HARTMAN: Hi, I'm Steve Hartman with 17 KIA. I had a question with concerns to the tailings 18 area, if there are going to be studies as far as 19 wildlife being attracted to the tailings area in the 20 other mine sites? 21 A MARTIN GEBAUER: Certainly the animals -- 22 there have certainly been studies that have shown birds, 23 waterfowl and birds landing on these tailings ponds, 24 probably not any greater abundance than they do in other 25 ponds, but -- and caribou have the possibility of coming 26 down to these areas to drink as well. Probably not in DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00137 1 greater numbers than they would anywhere else, but the 2 possibility is there. 3 STEVE HARTMAN: Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. NTI, any 5 questions? Thank you. Department of Fisheries and 6 Oceans? Thank you. Natural Resources Canada? Acres 7 International? Local residents, any other questions? 8 RESIDENTS QUESTION PROPONENT ON AQUATICS & TERRESTRIAL 9 Q HUGH NATEELA: Good afternoon. Just in 10 regards to some of the wildlife and stuff that were just 11 presented, I had one area of interest with wildlife, and 12 in particular with the tailings. I'm not sure what 13 there is in your draft in terms of dealing with wildlife 14 around the tailings. 15 I think you mentioned there that you have 16 deterrents and stuff by people, but I am just wondering 17 if you would have like a back-up plan to ensure wildlife 18 from getting to the tailings? 19 I understand this was brought up to some of the 20 community members and to the Elders and, like, I guess 21 they kind of laughed at the idea of putting a fence 22 around the tailings, if not the pit itself. But I am 23 just wondering if the Elders were informed exactly what 24 is involved, what chemicals are used in the mills? So I 25 guess basically my question would be if there is a 26 back-up plan other than just people deterring animal DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00138 1 control, especially around the tailings? Thank you. 2 A MARTIN GEBAUER: Thank you for your 3 question. I should just clarify that part of our 4 monitoring plan, we would have a kind of daily 5 monitoring of some of these areas like tailings ponds by 6 individuals that would be looking for birds or caribou 7 that might be in close proximity. 8 I should also mention that tailings ponds don't 9 detract these animals for food. The fish have been 10 taken out, and there is not any food there for them to 11 eat, so it is only for birds that may be sitting down to 12 rest, primarily anyways. 13 The third question was or I guess the third comment 14 was regarding fencing, and I should maybe let Craig give 15 a bit more background on this, but what we are planning 16 to do through our monitoring program is if we have a 17 situation where there are a lot of animals coming down 18 to the tailings pond and we are concerned about 19 potential contamination, at that point we could revisit 20 the possibility of looking at a fence or some other 21 barrier. But at this time, based on our discussions 22 with Elders and others, we were not planning on 23 including that in our management plan. 24 I don't know, Craig, if you have anything to add to 25 that or not? 26 CRAIG GOODINGS: No, just we first discussed DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00139 1 aversionary techniques, we looked at Inukshuks and we 2 did think about fences, and the Elders were concerned 3 that we would put any barriers up to the movement of 4 caribou, and so they are definitely against the idea of 5 putting fences up, and that's just what Martin said. So 6 nothing to add other than that. 7 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 8 questions from local residents. 9 Q BARB MUELLER: Good afternoon. I have two 10 questions -- or one question. My understanding is that 11 the mine is going to be industrial strength or 12 industrial-level noise. I don't know who is going to be 13 responsible for the road, but that's going to be 14 increased mine or increased noise levels, and I wonder 15 how that is going to affect the migration patterns of 16 tuktu, because you did demonstrate on your map a 17 migration below south of Meadowbank, and there are 18 wolves and other animals in that area. 19 Alex Hall in his book East of Eden indicated that 20 caribou need lots and lots of land for grazing. And you 21 will change, I think, the migratory patterns. 22 I guess my -- the other thing, I keep hearing 23 people mention Ekati and the wonderful success of Ekati. 24 But I read an article recently that indicated that the 25 caribou, from the noise level of Ekati and the noise 26 level of planes coming into communities, the caribou are DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00140 1 no longer close, so I wonder how that is going to affect 2 Baker Lake. 3 And I missed this morning, and I would like to know 4 who is going to be responsible for the road. 5 A MARTIN GEBAUER: Thank you for your 6 question, those are important concerns as well. And 7 noise, we also call sensory disturbance, does have an 8 impact on some wildlife, and there is certainly studies 9 that show to some extent, and we will be taking a lot 10 closer look at that in the future too as we lead up to 11 the final. 12 Some species do not seem particularly sensitive to 13 noise, such as the small birds and sik siks and other 14 things like that. So that's an important question, and, 15 yes, that is, you know, is a recognized impact of the 16 mine. 17 As far as the access road, the all-weather access 18 road and the impact of noise, my understanding is that 19 there will be actually relatively few trips on that road 20 in a given day. I think it is in the order of two or 21 five, perhaps five trips a day, and there may be an 22 option to convoy those trips. So it won't be like a 23 regular highway where there is traffic every hour, there 24 will be actually relatively few trips, so we anticipate 25 that the caribou will continue to move through that 26 area. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00141 1 But that's one of the reasons why we are going to 2 have a comprehensive monitoring plan as well, to see 3 what is really happening and what we can do to reduce 4 that impact. 5 Does that answer your question? 6 Q BARB MUELLER: Yeah, it kind of answers 7 from the mining point of view. But I'm sure if we have 8 a hundred-kilometre road from here to Meadowbank, many 9 community people are going to be using that road as 10 well. I mean, I have a vehicle and I will probably take 11 a drive up too. But I am wondering that's the other 12 impact, I'm wondering community people driving up the 13 road and back, winter and summer, and there are 14 blizzards and what impact that is going to have on 15 wildlife crossing. Who is going to be responsible for 16 security of that road? Who is going to go out and 17 search for people that are lost or stuck in a blizzard 18 on the road? And I think that's important. 19 We have lost -- we have had many deaths. We have 20 had deaths in the community because people were lost on 21 the land, and I think the road -- and I'm not against it 22 because I wouldn't mind getting in my truck and going 23 100 kilometres and seeing some things. But I think the 24 security of road is important because it would be 25 terrible to have somebody die in a truck or asphyxiate 26 in a truck from carbon monoxide. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00142 1 And I am really sorry that I missed this morning, 2 but I couldn't get away from work until now. 3 And I am really concerned about road kill. And, 4 you know, you have got animals crossing the road and you 5 have got a truck going however, whatever speed, and they 6 hit the animal. Thank you. 7 A MARTIN GEBAUER: Again, thank you for your 8 comments. I will address very quickly the road kill 9 issue. We have a number of plan, mitigation plans to 10 try to avoid that possibility. This will be reduced 11 travel speeds and also a very comprehensive reporting 12 system where the truckers report any wildlife that they 13 see along the road back to the camp, and that's -- that 14 information is provided to all the truckers so they know 15 where they have the potential to encounter some of the 16 larger animals as well. So that hopefully will reduce 17 any wildlife incidences along the way. 18 The issue regarding security is a more difficult 19 one, and I don't know if Craig has a comment on the 20 security of the road or not. 21 CRAIG GOODINGS: Security in the sense of 22 safety? 23 MARTIN GEBAUER: Security in the sense of 24 managing who of the local community uses the road and 25 safety of those people. I am passing the question along 26 to you because I don't have the answer. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00143 1 CRAIG GOODINGS: The road, as everyone 2 knows, the road -- it was in our Draft EIS but it wasn't 3 a full consideration because we hadn't decided on which 4 form of transport to use yet. But now that the 5 feasibility has indicated the road to be the best 6 option, there are certainly details to be worked out, 7 one of those is security. 8 The road -- you have to understand, the road will 9 be primarily -- it will be for primary use of the mining 10 equipment and the mining company. Use for other reasons 11 still has to be decided, but from our end, we will have 12 regular patrols along the road. And we anticipate that 13 with work with the KIA and the people from Baker Lake, 14 we can work out other issues, resolve other issues such 15 as security. 16 I think that you are aware right now that most of 17 the year you can go anywhere on the land, and perhaps -- 18 I'm just speculating here, if perhaps if people did use 19 that road instead of just going any direction, it might 20 be easier to find them if there was some kind of a risk 21 or somebody was lost in the wintertime. But those are 22 details that still need to be worked out. 23 CHAIRPERSON: When you are speaking, can 24 you slow down for the interpreters, please. 25 CRAIG GOODINGS: As well, because, of 26 course, the security of our workers is important, as DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00144 1 much as it is the community members, the road will have 2 a refuse station every 10 kilometres, and the speed 3 limit will be 50 kilometres an hour, and there will be 4 maintenance contracts will be given out by Cumberland. 5 MARTIN GEBAUER: Thank you, Craig. 6 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 7 questions from the local residents? 8 Q MIKE ALEIX: I keep coming here because 9 I am quite aware of this. I am very interested. First 10 of all, someone mentioned about year-round once the mine 11 opens, I think somebody mentioned year-round mining once 12 it is opened, right? My question is this, I think it is 13 a serious one. You know, we have about something like 14 eight months of winter, even right now it is wintertime, 15 you know, the barge cannot come here. You have only 16 got, what is it, July, August, September and part of 17 October, not very much. 18 How are you going to -- once it is opened, I am 19 very concerned about that year-round thing and the road 20 opens from wherever, Meadowbank to Baker Lake, where are 21 you going to store all of those gold and whatnot? You 22 need a very, very large building to store them, the ore, 23 the precious metals, and you also have to keep those 24 land -- those criminals or whatever, because they are 25 very precious, so you have to answer this one if it is 26 not too hard for you. You understand my question? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00145 1 There is several of them. 2 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Thank you for the 3 questions. The gold will be -- the gold will be 4 manufactured on site, and we will end up with gold bars 5 about this big, one a day, and they will be flown out by 6 air. 7 Q MIKE ALEIX: That doesn't -- that is why 8 I came here. That worries me, because it is going to 9 cost you plenty. You are going to be broke before it is 10 all over. 11 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Thank you for your concern. 12 Q MIKE ALEIX: It is very expensive by 13 air. You mentioned about air, right, and the road. 14 You are going to need a whole lot of money in a few 15 years just to run that Meadowbank. I don't know how you 16 are going to... 17 A CRAIG GOODINGS: You are right. It is going 18 to be a lot of money. It is $300 million to build the 19 mine and $92 million a year to run it. 20 MIKE ALEIX: Anyway, there is other 21 people here, so I will come back later. Thank you. 22 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any questions 23 for NIRB staff? 24 NIRB STAFF QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON AQUATICS & TERRESTRIAL 25 Q CAROLANNE INGLIS: Thank you, Mr. Chairperson. 26 I was just wondering, Martin, if the sources for the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00146 1 identification of the calving grounds, the map that you 2 had with the particular calving grounds took into 3 account traditional knowledge? 4 MARTIN GEBAUER: Yeah, for all of our 5 surveys and all the work that we did, we did look at 6 traditional knowledge. There has been several great 7 studies, one I am thinking of in the late 1970s that 8 looked at those kind of things, so we used that kind of 9 evidence as well. 10 And just chatting with the people that live here in 11 Baker Lake, we have had lots of conversations with 12 people like Tom and Jacob, what their experience has 13 been over the last 50 years. So the answer is yes. 14 Q STEPHEN LINES: I just have one question, 15 Mr. Chairman, and that is other than the road kills, 16 what impacts on wildlife are important to consider with 17 respect to the construction and operation of an 18 all-weather road? 19 A MARTIN GEBAUER: The only major potential 20 impact is the timing of when you build the road, if it 21 is during the breeding bird season, and birds are 22 breeding along that road, there is some risk there. But 23 under the Migratory Bird Convention, we need to protect 24 those species, so timing of building and conducting nest 25 surveys to see what's there, and avoidance is going to 26 be part of our management. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00147 1 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 2 questions from NIRB staff? Board members, any 3 questions? Pauloosie? 4 BOARD MEMBERS QUESTION PROPONENT ON AQUATICS & 5 TERRESTRIAL 6 Q PAULOOSIE PANILOO: The rocks, how are they 7 going to be transported from one area to another? 8 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Was the question how was 9 the mine rock going to be transported? 10 INTERPRETER: I do believe that's the 11 question, yes. 12 CRAIG GOODINGS: Essentially the mine rock 13 will be transported from the open pit in large trucks 14 from the open pit directly to the mill. The rock that 15 is not ore that is waste rock will be transported from 16 the pit right directly to the waste piles. The haul 17 distances are very short. Seven kilometres maximum from 18 the Vault, which is the farthest distance the rocks will 19 have to be trucked. 20 Q PAULOOSIE PANILOO: Okay. Then how will they 21 go be transported to the south to market, whether 22 through Yellowknife or by ship? 23 A CRAIG GOODINGS: The gold will be flown 24 directly from the mine, to the bank, right directly to 25 the Ottawa Mint. 26 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00148 1 questions from Board members? Peter? 2 Q PETER PANEAK: I am Peter Paneak. The 3 tailings area, I would like to know whether the tailings 4 will or will not be -- whenever the wildlife want to 5 walk anywhere, they go. Will the caribou, obviously 6 whether it is stormy, when they want to move, they move. 7 And so is there any potential of caribou going through, 8 walking through the tailings areas, tailings ponds? 9 A MARTIN GEBAUER: Thank you for your 10 question. Yes, I suppose there is that potential for 11 caribou to travel through that area. 12 I should also mention that caribou are there 13 primarily during the wintertime and not so much during 14 the season when the ground is thawed, so for most of the 15 year they would be. If they do move across that area, 16 it would be when the ground is frozen and there is ice. 17 Q PETER PANEAK: Let me reiterate, let me 18 add, you know, whenever wildlife want to move, they will 19 not wait for nice weather, and you are going to have to 20 know that. They will not inform you ahead of time as to 21 where they are going to go so, you know, when they want 22 to move, even though it is storming, they will want to 23 move. And, you know, they can move around whether it is 24 through the storm or in the middle of the night and they 25 will know -- when they want to go somewhere, they know 26 exactly where they want to go, and so they go directly DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00149 1 to whether it is stormy or whether it is nice. Their 2 instincts tell them as to exactly which way they have to 3 go. So that's just to inform you that wildlife move 4 wherever they want at any time of the year, night or 5 day. 6 A MARTIN GEBAUER: Yeah, thank you for your 7 comments. 8 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. No other 9 questions from the Board members? Thank you for your 10 presentation. 11 We will take a five-minute break, but after that we 12 have Peter Tapatai. We are bumping him up because of -- 13 due to personal reasons, and then after Peter we will 14 have KivIA and NTI joined. We will take a five-minute 15 break. 16 (BRIEF RECESS) 17 CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you, 18 everybody. Up next we have Peter Tapatai to do a 19 presentation. 20 PRESENTATION BY PETER TAPATAI 21 PETER TAPATAI: Hello. I going to speak in 22 English. 23 First of all, thank you, Mr. Chairman and fellow 24 boards. I hope you had a good trip to Baker Lake. I 25 see you brought the sun, hopefully our fishing trips and 26 stuff will increase. Much obliged to the good weather DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00150 1 you have brought. And I hope the hearings have been 2 going well for you and definitely a historic event for 3 the people of Baker Lake. 4 I will introduce myself, and I would hope and I 5 would ask the Chair and the Board that people that come 6 up here should tell who they are and what kind of work 7 they are involved with, so that, you know, we always 8 understand exactly where everybody is coming from. 9 I'm a private businessman, and I'm not ashamed of 10 it, and I'm going to tell you I support the Meadowbank 11 project. 12 But just a little introduction to myself, I spent 13 15 years working for the Inuit Broadcasting Corporation. 14 I was a founding member of that organization, and it 15 brought me a lot of knowledge. I don't have a great 16 deal of education. 17 But really good to see Lucassie up there, went to 18 school with him over in Churchill. And probably a lot 19 of things that I learned have come from that school. 20 1999 probably was the most important thing to me as 21 an Inuk here in Baker Lake and likewise throughout the 22 Nunavut territory, we had become a new territory. A 23 dream that we all thought about about owning our own 24 land, running our own government. 25 And the gentleman sitting here was one of the 26 keynote speakers, Joe Tiliangak (phonetic), and we were DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00151 1 invited to attend the first Nunavut Mining Symposium 2 back in 1999, and what he said to me was a very 3 ear-grabbing message that has stuck with me ever since 4 he said we are open for business. 5 And to me, that was extremely important as an 6 Aboriginal person, because we had just started a new 7 territory, there was the first mining symposium, there 8 were a lot of people there, and I participated, and it 9 was very, very exciting. And shortly after that I left 10 the broadcasting and invested my time and energy into 11 starting a company called Peter's Expediting Limited. 12 The Nunavut government was just starting, and there 13 are many, many challenges which faced the Nunavut 14 government, and I still think today we have many more 15 challenges to overcome. For one, jobs. Jobs are very 16 scarce here in Baker Lake, the decentralization, which 17 was supposed to benefit the Inuit in Baker Lake. In my 18 mind and as I watched the community, has not benefited 19 us. 20 My dreams in being able to participate in what's 21 going on has not happened. Any kind of job that has 22 ever been brought to Baker Lake through the form of 23 decentralization has gone to someone else outside of 24 Baker Lake, a non-Aboriginal. So it is because we don't 25 have Inuit that have the education and the 26 qualifications to sit in these jobs. And I don't see DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00152 1 any push for the government, the Nunavut government to 2 be trying to apply training so that the Inuit can have a 3 chance to get into the government jobs, but they are -- 4 it seems to me that people that have filled those jobs 5 are here to stay because they have got their housing are 6 all provided. 7 When was the last time any one of us gone to the 8 Northern store and saw how expensive bread, butter and 9 milk has been. Very, very expensive up here. 10 The decentralization was supposed to benefit Inuit, 11 but it hasn't in my mind. So how has the new government 12 benefited our community? Very little. For someone 13 else, maybe a great deal, but the Inuit are not ready to 14 take the government jobs because we are unable to access 15 training dollars. 16 My hat is off to you, Mr. Chairman and to the 17 Nunavut Impact Review Board. You were given an 18 opportunity with two options, this hearing could have 19 been conducted by the Indian and Northern Affairs, but 20 it was done by the appointment organization, the 21 designated Inuit organization, and I am so proud. 22 Our Land Claims Agreement gives us these option, 23 and you have decided to exercise that option to hear us. 24 Taking this responsibility, no doubt, will be difficult. 25 As an Inuk and seeing Inuit as directors, as yourself, 26 tells me we, the members of this community, will be -- DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00153 1 our roles will be taken very seriously. 2 Peter's Expediting has never won one single 3 government contract. So how is it that we have been 4 around for seven years? Our company has only been able 5 to be here because of private businesses like Cumberland 6 Resources, Kennacot, DeBeers, BHP, believing that Inuit 7 can do the job. My thanks for them for continuing to 8 support our business. PEL is always able to hire local 9 Inuit. 10 Just a little history about the activity last year. 11 Last year we were able to hire a total of 26 employees 12 from January through May, and of the 26, 25 of them were 13 local Inuit. We hauled 1.8 million pounds over our 14 winter route. 15 This year was definitely much slower because of the 16 process that has to take place. Over seven years, 17 Peter's Expediting has been able to help access training 18 funds for receiving and accepting dangerous goods. And 19 we were able to partner up with Cumberland, and we 20 offered their Inuit employees to be certified. 21 This is just a small example of the kind of 22 partnership that Inuit and other businesses can enter 23 into if you have a vision. 24 Neither of the government, being Government of 25 Nunavut and the Canadian government, has offered jobs 26 that is being brought to our community like Cumberland DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00154 1 Resources. 2 40 percent unemployment in Baker Lake alone, that's 3 a very, very high unemployment. Every day I hear people 4 wanting a little bit of food, that's because they have 5 no form of employment. 6 I guess the big question for this is the 7 all-weather road and how the all-weather road may affect 8 our community. We have a little 12-kilometre road. I 9 don't know how many of you have taken the opportunity, 10 but if you haven't, I would suggest while you are here, 11 to go see our 12-kilometre road, and the last I remember 12 last night, a caribou went across. So apparently 13 somebody said earlier today the Elder said the caribou 14 has no law of where it wants to go, but yesterday it 15 went across from one side of the road to the other. 16 So I believe -- also in the fall, we see thousands 17 of caribou migrate through the back of our yard here, 18 right across the road. So I am not sure if a road -- 19 roads and stuff interferes. Just my own little 20 knowledge. I don't have a great deal about wildlife, 21 but when I say that caribou cross the road, something 22 tells me that maybe roads are good. 23 There used to be a tundra trail where ATVs used to 24 go across. The last when I looked, the vegetation was 25 growing. But if you go across that bridge, you will see 26 the land is ripped apart. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00155 1 You know, we really want to protect our 2 environment, and I believe a road, one-way road going 3 from Baker Lake to the Meadowbank will be good for the 4 community. We will not be ripping up our land. 5 I know Kivalliq Inuit Association knows the 6 benefits of the method, so do we, the Inuit of Baker 7 Lake. So I support an all-weather road. 8 If you haven't had time to take an ATV, if you have 9 to, and go drink some good water up there across the 10 bridge. 11 If we had a road, people would not have to go all 12 over the land, because we have been using these little 13 road that goes to the bridge. ATVs around here are not 14 recreational vehicles, we use them for hunting. 15 There are many young couples in Baker Lake, and I 16 was told today that $600 a month will be able to serve 17 four to five people. If you haven't taken the time to 18 go to the Northern store or the Co-op, go see the price 19 of food. 20 We need the jobs. Our young people need the jobs. 21 How are the Inuit supposed to live? We have a chance to 22 better our life, and the more time taken will only hurt 23 the Inuit of this community. The Inuit in Baker Lake 24 and in the Kivalliq region needs jobs now. Time is 25 something we don't have. 26 There are very few working group of people. And I DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00156 1 pay taxes. The last time I remembered, I pay for a 2 territorial tax, and I paid for a federal tax. I paid 3 for utility bills, I paid for a land tax. These all add 4 up to what is left after that, can't afford to buy a 5 boat and motor. 6 I believe the Meadowbank project here in Baker Lake 7 is something that we really need, new money coming into 8 a community. $600 going around four or five times after 9 how many bingos, that's not the way I want to see my 10 Inuit making a living. 11 This company goes out, Cumberland Resources goes 12 out, they have to find private money so that they can go 13 on with their drill programs. 14 You know that their -- the money that they go out 15 and find hires, hires us. I had maybe seven, eight 16 people on the payroll. Drilling programs are important 17 to not only Meadowbank but for other companies that come 18 around here, they hire us. When they hire us, we can 19 turn around and hire local people. 20 The Nunavut government has very little money. I 21 think if I understand how money works, we need new money 22 to start -- to be positive about ourselves. This would 23 be good for Nunavut. But more important, good to the 24 Inuit. 25 If you look around here, there is not much for the 26 young people. How are the young people supposed to DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00157 1 build their self-esteem, be proud of who they are? They 2 need jobs, they have families. They have got kids to 3 feed. 4 In closing, again, thank you. Partnerships are 5 important, we all can benefit from what is going on. 6 Remember, there are many Inuit unemployed in Baker 7 Lake, and not only in Baker Lake but in Nunavut. I hope 8 I have brought a clear message. 9 When I listen to people questioning around there, 10 about how things are going to work, Cumberland has been 11 coming to Baker Lake for the last seven years and that 12 has to tell you something. They have come to consult 13 the Inuit, every year what they are going to do. Every 14 year they come and tell us of how many drills are going 15 to be working, they are often looking for work. 16 The seven years is what you see of the kind of 17 information that they have brought to you today. I 18 think very clear, very positive. But, you know, more, 19 if we take time to review, let's do our job quickly, 20 quickly but also with a clear mind. 21 Our young people need to feel optimistic and feel 22 that they can be part of this, the success that I think 23 will be bringing to our community. 24 There is no new jobs coming from the Nunavut 25 government. The way the Nunavut government is only 26 going to be able to work is for projects like DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00158 1 Meadowbank. And I hope that -- I hope things will be 2 good by 2006, because I think that's their target. 3 Remember us, Inuks, out here. 4 Yes, I know that, you know, the environment is 5 extremely important and the habitat, but what about us, 6 Inuks, ones that are looking for work? We could be the 7 next lost habitat if we are not careful. 8 Receiving Social Assistance and stuff is not the 9 way my grandfather taught me. He taught me to go out 10 and work as hard as I could. I am glad he has told me 11 this. I have always been trying to work hard, I try 12 hard to hire local people, because I believe in them. 13 Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Matna. 14 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your 15 presentation. Any questions to Peter's Expediting. 16 Cumberland? 17 CRAIG GOODINGS: No questions. 18 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. KIA, questions? 19 Thank you. NTI? INAC? 20 CARL McLEAN: No questions. 21 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Natural 22 Resources Canada? Acres International? Local 23 residents, any questions to Peter? NIRB staff -- sorry, 24 go ahead. 25 RESIDENT QUESTIONS PROPONENT 26 Q SIMONE TOOKOOME: I just wanted to remember, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00159 1 because we have no -- there is hardly any employment 2 coming in. I want Inuit to be remembered, and it is 3 good to see. Please remember the Inuit. 4 It is good to see back then, and the only way is by 5 money. And so Inuit, we didn't live by money, but now 6 today we need to -- you know, we had to hunt for our 7 food, and so just by watching with our own eyes, we try, 8 we understood. When we understand, you know, we were 9 not brought up on letters and lettering. And so it was 10 with our own eyes that we learned to do things as to how 11 -- and here we are Inuit who have never learned any 12 lettering that we were able to live and survive. 13 And the question I had is about tailings, what's 14 going to be burned? Are the tailings ponds separate 15 from the rest of the garbage, or are they all coupled 16 together? What's happening here? 17 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Maybe we will 18 just let them answer that. 19 A BRAD THIELE: Regarding the garbage 20 handling, the plan is that combustible waste is 21 incinerated. Scrap metals are buried in the waste dump. 22 Petroleum product wastes such as lube oils, et cetera, 23 are collected and hauled out. 24 Sewage, raw sewage effluent joins the tailings. 25 Q SIMONE TOOKOOME: Or there is going to be 26 fencing around the tailings so that wildlife will not DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00160 1 approach the tailings area? 2 A CRAIG GOODINGS: We do not propose to use 3 fences. 4 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Is there any 5 other questions to Peter's Expediting? Local residents? 6 Peter, you had a comment again? 7 PETER TAPATAI: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 8 In closing, I would hope -- I was very pleased to see 9 that we have various federal government departments are 10 sitting here. I would hope that they take my message 11 and deliver it to their appropriate ministers, that 12 time -- we are -- we want to move forward and that, you 13 know, we need work. 14 And I support the Meadowbank project. Thank you 15 very much, and I hope you have a pleasant stay, the 16 Nunavut Impact Review Board and the Cumberland Resources 17 and enjoy your stay in Baker Lake. Thank you. 18 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any questions 19 from the Board to Peter's Expediting. Thank you very 20 much, Peter. 21 Cumberland had a little more to add to their 22 presentation. 23 JOHN DONIHEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I 24 actually have one technical matter to deal with, and 25 then I would like just a few moments to make some 26 comments about the nine points, which are primarily DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00161 1 procedural. 2 But the technical point that I need to address is 3 simply to ask to have several exhibits filed. I have a 4 copy of the slide shows I have already been given, and I 5 would like to file on the record a hard copy for each 6 one. I could file it as one batch of documents, or we 7 could file them separately. 8 BILL TILLEMAN: Sorry, Mr. Chairman. Thank 9 you, if I might just respond to that. 10 We also have a public registry that I would like to 11 ensure it is on the record, and so normally we wouldn't 12 file that as an exhibit, but unless there is any 13 disagreement with any of the parties, the Board will be 14 relying on the public registry, we don't need to file 15 the whole thing. But all parties needed to understand 16 that the public registry is a collection of a whole 17 bunch of documents that we have to date. 18 That doesn't address Mr. Donihee's question. I 19 would suggest and recommend, sir, that you probably file 20 them in one at a time and give them different titles. 21 They were presented in that way, and we will just let 22 him start and offer marking them as number 1 through 23 whatever. 24 JOHN DONIHEE: Sure. The first document 25 then was the general presentation made by Mr. Goodings. 26 It doesn't actually have a title on it. Introductory DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00162 1 Presentation, perhaps we could call it. We will just 2 call it the introductory presentation, it is blacked 3 out. 4 The second document, then, would be the Meadowbank 5 Gold Project permafrost presentation that was made this 6 morning. Third one, Meadowbank project geochemistry 7 presentation made this morning. Fourth document, the 8 Meadowbank project fisheries and aquatic studies 9 presentation. And the sixth (sic) one, Meadowbank 10 project terrestrial ecology presentation all to be dated 11 June 6th, 2005. 12 And I would like to tender, as well, a CD with -- 13 which has all of the electronic versions of today's 14 presentation on it, because I know that you will want to 15 put them onto your website. 16 And then secondly, on the same CD are all of the 17 presentations made by the Meadowbank or the Cumberland 18 presenters at the two-day technical session which was 19 held last week which we committed to file on the public 20 record. So if the CD would be exhibit number 6 dated 21 today with the technical meeting and the prehearing 22 conference presentations on it, that will cover it. 23 I will provide these to Mr. Tilleman at the next 24 break. 25 EXHIBIT 1: INTRODUCTORY PRESENTATION 26 BY CUMBERLAND RESOURCES. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00163 1 EXHIBIT 2: PERMAFROST BASELINE STUDIES 2 PRESENTATION BY CUMBERLAND RESOURCES 3 EXHIBIT 3: GEOCHEMISTRY STUDY 4 PRESENTATION BY CUMBERLAND RESOURCES 5 EXHIBIT 4: FISHERIES AND AQUATIC 6 STUDIES PRESENTATION BY CUMBERLAND 7 RESOURCES 8 EXHIBIT 5: TERRESTRIAL SURVEYS 9 PRESENTATION BY CUMBERLAND RESOURCES. 10 EXHIBIT 6: ELECTRONIC VERSIONS OF ALL 11 CUMBERLAND RESOURCES PRESENTATION AT 12 THE TECHNICAL MEETING AND PREHEARING 13 CONFERENCE 14 CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you. 15 JOHN DONIHEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, 16 that's the technical point. 17 There was an item number 7 on the agenda which 18 involved the prehearing presentation by Cumberland 19 Resources Limited. 20 I am going to be very brief with that, because on 21 May 20th of this year, along with several of the other 22 intervenors, Cumberland wrote to NIRB and did answer the 23 nine questions, but there are a couple of additional 24 details that I can provide now based on our experience 25 last week at the technical session that update our 26 answers to the nine points. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00164 1 And the numbers, or the points were numbered in the 2 NIRB instructions to the parties, and so I am just going 3 to respond by point number. We don't have anything 4 additional on points number 1 or 2, but on point number 5 3, NIRB asked for comments about the list of issues to 6 be dealt with in the final public hearing and a 7 statement of the issue. And in that respect, on May 8 20th we weren't able to say a whole lot because that was 9 the day that we got everyone's technical reviews. But 10 as the Board is aware, it had two days here last week 11 where we had quite an exchange among all of the 12 technical experts on the issues that they raised in the 13 reviews. 14 And the additional submission that we would make 15 here is simply that it is Cumberland's view that in the 16 end of the technical session, the parties agreed pretty 17 much, there was pretty much a consensus on a list of 18 commitments, a list of additional work that ought to be 19 done going forward from this point. And the Board has 20 received submissions last night, 7 o'clock was the 21 deadline. So the Board received submissions on that 22 list of commitments. Cumberland made submissions, and I 23 understand the other departments or reviewers have as 24 well. 25 Our suggestion, Mr. Chairman, is that the list of 26 things that need to be done going forward to the final DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00165 1 hearing should be largely based on the list of work and 2 commitments that was generated from the two-day 3 technical session. 4 Now, there is still a little bit of fine tuning to 5 do to that list. The parties haven't -- we all 6 submitted yesterday, but we haven't seen what each other 7 submitted, so I expect by the end of your prehearing 8 conference we will have final views, if there is any 9 reply from anybody. But my suggestion, and Cumberland's 10 suggestion to the Board is that the list of work that 11 should be done between now and the final hearing should 12 primarily be based on that list. And from our side, of 13 course, we also will be providing the Board with all of 14 the ongoing research and analysis which is being 15 conducted on the all-weather access road option. 16 So those are the two components that we would like 17 to suggest should form the majority of what the Board 18 suggests need to be done or orders need to be done 19 between now and the final hearing. 20 Your point number 4, I think I have addressed as 21 well, it just speaks to technical reports and other 22 documents. And that list that I just spoke about has a 23 number of those kinds of things on it, and so in our 24 submission the list covers item number 4 on the NIRB 25 list of questions as well. 26 Point number 5 related to the schedule to be DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00166 1 followed by the parties for completion of reports prior 2 to the hearing, so how long is it going to take to get 3 the work done before a Final EIS can be submitted and 4 hearing scheduled? 5 And the -- Cumberland's view is that the -- this 6 work will be done by fall, this fall. It is not 7 possible right now to be much more specific than that, 8 it is a long list, there is a lot of work to do. There 9 is a very strong commitment from Cumberland to get it 10 done as soon as possible and to move forward to final 11 hearings. 12 And so fall, for sure, all of that work will be 13 done, and it will be compiled into a Final EIS in 14 whatever way is appropriate, and that will be filed to 15 move us forward to the next stage of this process. 16 When exactly the hearing will take place is related 17 to your question number 6, which was the schedule dates 18 and times and places of the final public hearing. And, 19 again, it is a little hard still to be specific about 20 that, but of course there will be a 90-day period, as 21 per your rules of procedure, between the filing of the 22 Final EIS and the dates when the hearings will happen. 23 And so obviously a lot of the timetable is going to rest 24 on Cumberland's shoulders in terms of how fast this work 25 gets done, but we are hoping to be in a position to move 26 to a final hearing late in the calendar year or early in DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00167 1 2006, as early as possible in 2006. 2 As far as places go, we are suggesting that the 3 same communities be used for the final hearing as have 4 been used for this prehearing conference. Baker Lake, 5 Chesterfield Inlet and Rankin Inlet. 6 Speaking to your points number 7 was any special 7 procedures, and we have no suggestions on that at this 8 point, nor in response to your question number 8 are we 9 able to identify any motions needed before the Final EIS 10 is filed, although I do understand there is one motion 11 that we will be dealing with this week, and I guess I'm 12 not counting that one. 13 Finally, any other matters in aid of the final 14 technical hearing, it would seem to us that it will 15 probably take a week for a final hearing. That there 16 needs to be several days set aside for the heavy 17 technical discussions that are to be expected in these 18 kinds of hearings, and obviously days have to be set 19 aside to go to the communities and hear what Inuit in 20 the other communities have to say as well. So we are 21 suggesting that a week be scheduled, that's probably an 22 adequate amount of time, that several days be set aside 23 for technical matters and that those days be broken down 24 so that we can deal with land issues, water issues, 25 engineering issues, much in the same way as the 26 technical sessions were broken down. So we need to be DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00168 1 able to have that time set aside so that we can schedule 2 our work and make sure that we have the presence of all 3 of our experts to assist the Board. 4 Those are the only additional comments that we 5 would make, Mr. Chairman, in respect of the nine points. 6 And subject to any questions that the Board may have, 7 that's all I have to say. Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Bill? 9 BILL TILLEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 10 No, I don't have any questions for him, but he did raise 11 the issue of the filing of the document that is the 12 commitments list that was referenced at the end of last 13 week's meeting between all the parties. And the Board 14 now is in possession of all of those responses. 15 We have received comments from DIAND, KIA, DFO, 16 Acres, and, of course, the company. What I would like 17 to do now, sir, is mark that as Exhibit number 7. The 18 Board and the staff have made copies for everybody, and 19 we would simply like to get that in everyone's hands as 20 soon as possible. And so we now mark that with your 21 permission as number 7, and the copies are available for 22 all the parties to read overnight, and we will deal with 23 that however we do in the morning. 24 And beyond that, sir, I don't have any comments. 25 EXHIBIT 7: COMMENTS TO THE LIST OF 26 COMMITMENTS BY CUMBERLAND RESOURCES, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00169 1 INCLUDING CUMBERLAND, KIVALLIQ INUIT 2 ASSOCIATION, DEPARTMENT OF FISHERIES 3 AND OCEANS, ENVIRONMENT CANADA, INAC 4 AND ACRES INTERNATIONAL 5 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. We will go back 6 to our presentations. KIA and NTI are doing a joint 7 presentation. Did you guys need time to set up. 8 PRESENTATION BY KIA AND NTI 9 JOE KALUDJAK: Thank you, Mr. Chair. My 10 name is Joe Kaludjak from KIA. Thank you, you are in 11 Kivalliq, the Board and Inuit who are here and those 12 employees. 13 I don't think there were too many Inuit this 14 morning, there is a few numbers. It is good to see that 15 they were able to come. Firstly, in the spring, it 16 makes it almost impossible to have meetings, to hold 17 meetings of any kind in the spring anywhere, but because 18 KIA understands that, you know, things have to move on, 19 and so this is where the meeting started. 20 As the community of Baker Lake is going to be -- 21 get the most impact, and all the other communities will. 22 Obviously it will affect, impact all of Kivalliq, all 23 the communities. And whatever is being -- obviously it 24 is going to be, all the communities have to be informed 25 and especially as to the Inuit, as we want most of the 26 Inuit -- all the mining companies and obviously this DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00170 1 will not be the first. 2 A number of years ago there was a mine that was -- 3 and even I worked in that mine, and there had been a 4 number of Inuit who had worked in the mine in Rankin 5 Inlet. There were a number of Inuit from Baker Lake 6 that had worked in that mine, and that really helped. 7 And speaking with the Elders in Rankin Inlet and 8 anywhere else, and some of them moved to Arviat, and 9 some have passed on, but I want you to know that, you 10 know, their lives have been improved. And we are 11 listening to this. 12 And especially when we hear about jobs, people want 13 to hear about them, I want you to know that. But the 14 Inuit inside the Kivalliq region are going to be 15 impacted in one way or another. 16 And it is also looking at the young people who are 17 working, please keep on working. And as the employment 18 is opened to you, and continue working, if possible. 19 And, you know, when work come up, we have to do them. 20 When they are going to -- when Cumberland is going to 21 open, and having worked with a number of them, and so I 22 encourage them to continue. 23 And the Inuit here who -- let them ask the 24 question. If you are not -- if you don't ask questions, 25 you do not get the answers you want. And even though 26 the questions may be ones that you don't really want to DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00171 1 hear, but they help you in one way or another. And I 2 know you have a lot to do with what -- and some of the 3 points are going to take a bit, and sometimes some of 4 them have to be brought into in English, and Jeannie so 5 Ehaloak will be coming from NTI. 6 JEANNIE EHALOAK: Thank you, Mr. Chair, 7 members of the Board, ladies and gentlemen. We would 8 like to present our PowerPoint presentation to put on 9 the public registry. 10 Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated and Kivalliq Inuit 11 Association reviewed the Draft EIS for the Meadowbank 12 Gold Project. The purpose of the review was to identify 13 potential technical concerns associated with the 14 project. The findings presented here are based on 15 information provided by GeoVector Management 16 Incorporated, consultants, NTI and KIA staff. 17 A copy of the GeoVector Management Incorporated's 18 final report of the technical review of the draft 19 environmental statement for Cumberland Resources, 20 Meadowbank Gold Project filed on April 22nd has been 21 submitted. 22 Our general statement, the Draft EIS generally has 23 thorough baseline studies, other than the omission of 24 the all-weather road and the marine plan. Most issues 25 conform to the NIRB guidelines. Significant 26 noncompliance issues are shown in the following slides. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00172 1 Major issues not complied with are production 2 increase from 5,500 tonnes to 7500 tonnes per day are 3 not in the Draft EIS, the all-weather road, tailings may 4 not become permafrost, waste rock piles may become acid 5 draining, Third Portage Lake may drain into Back River 6 system, Draft EIS has no marine plan. 7 There is conflicting information in the Draft EIS 8 as to the production rate with reference to the sizing 9 of the mining fleet to sustain 2,500 million tonnes to 10 2,700 million tonnes per year. But all water balance, 11 processing and tailings issues are based on 2 million 55 12 hundred tonnes per year. The feasibility states that 13 the production rate will be 2,703 million tonnes per 14 year or 7500 tonnes per day. 15 This change increases the work force, the mining 16 fleet, processing plant, power plant, fuel storage and 17 transport requirements, fuel usage, other consumables, 18 tailing disposition rate, air emissions, production 19 life, water balance, timing of discharge into Third 20 Portage Lake. 21 It should be noted here also that nowhere in the 22 Draft EIS are minable reserves quoted by only measured 23 and indicated. Since all resources do not become 24 reserves, the reviewers were not able to ascertain the 25 impact of mine life. Minable reserve numbers are 26 absolutely necessary for the Draft EIS. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00173 1 The change from winter-haul route to an all-weather 2 road has created a completely new feature to the 3 project. Cumberland has supplied a matrix of potential 4 impacts and schematics of the road route and potential 5 road cross sections. Their reviews have determined that 6 the road requires 34 stream crossings, five which may 7 need bridges and none of which have been assessed for 8 environmental impacts; crosses five caribou migration 9 routes; needs two to four borrow pits for construction, 10 which will all need to be drilled and blasted; will 11 require approximately 4 million tonnes of fill; will 12 destroy 150 hectares of habitat, and just stating 13 recently that Craig had mentioned now stating refuge 14 stations every 10 kilometres. 15 The reviewers feel that the potential impacts of 16 fish and fish habitat, caribou, vegetation and 17 associated socio-economic impacts are substantial due to 18 an all-weather road. The all-weather road will also 19 improve access to lakes, potentially impacting fish 20 stocks. 21 Activity at the Lupin, Ekati, and Diavik mines 22 indicate a noticeable change has occurred in the caribou 23 population over the past several years due to increased 24 road activity. 25 The reviewers believe not including the road, a 26 complete road study is a critical omission to the Draft DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00174 1 EIS. And looking at this map, we have picked -- we took 2 the information from the Draft EIS, and as you can see, 3 the all-weather road, the road is in green. The bridges 4 are the pink dots, the culverts are the yellow, the 5 quarries are the pink diamonds, the fishing is the blue 6 area, the hunting is in the green area, and the caribou 7 crossings are in the brown, which is -- this map shows 8 the south half, and again this map shows the north half. 9 I will now turn the mic over to Luis. 10 LUIS MANZO: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, 11 members of the Board, good afternoon. My name is Luis 12 Manzo, the director of lands. I will continue with the 13 presentation. 14 KIA also found in its working -- it is in the list 15 that we actually worked during the technical session, 16 but we would also like to keep it on the record. 17 Tailings permafrost, permafrost at Meadowbank could 18 be thinner than 350 metres to 400 metres. Indicated in 19 the EIS is 550 metres. 20 Global warming could be higher than predicted in 21 the Draft EIS. The tailings area may not form 22 permafrost as predicted. This is based in the modelling 23 of Meadowbank and also a modelling from GeoVector. 24 Long-term metals leakage into groundwater could 25 occur. Leakage could occur under pit dam into the Third 26 Portage. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00175 1 There is an increase graph of the temperature over 2 the years. You can see that under 100 year, it has been 3 split of increased temperature. 4 That increase the active layer, and basically in 5 the EIS and the findings for permafrost, you need at 6 least 4.4 grades (phonetic) to actually grade permafrost 7 in the ground. 8 The important issue of this graph is the long-term 9 thickness of the active layer over time. Possible 10 leakage in the tailing was illustrated as a potential, 11 so we used information from the EIS, the information 12 presented in the EIS draft to build this, a graph. As 13 you can see, you have fracture in rocks in the tailing 14 area underneath the tailing, that's the blue area here. 15 So right now it is uncertain, I don't know, these 16 area is all fracture, which areas are fracture, so it is 17 uncertain. Then the pressure from the tailing can 18 potentially go down and leach into the pit dam, so 19 that's a potential in there to occur. So to continue 20 assessing the information, we did not have the whole 21 entire data. This is based on what they present to 22 review. 23 Acid drainage in the waste rock piles. All waste 24 rock piles, including Vault are, they have a potential 25 of acid generating and could produce acid-rock drainage 26 if it is not covered. KIA needs to see if there is any DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00176 1 plan being, in this case, that's why we put this forward 2 to cover all piles with nonpotential acid-generating 3 rock, including the Vault. 4 What's mentioned right now is needed a cover of 4 5 metres, according to our consultants, for nonpotential 6 generation of acid drainage, which in the EIS draft is 2 7 metres at this time. 8 So the detailed acid-rock drainage testing should 9 be in the Final EIS in order for us to assess properly 10 those pile rocks. 11 The other issues, the Back River drainage. Nowhere 12 in the EIS is a map, everything is concentrated in the 13 area of the map. In order to explain this, because it 14 is not in the EIS, we have put together a topographic 15 map. Northwest arm of the Third Portage Lake may drain 16 towards the Pipe Dream Lakes and the Back River system. 17 There is a potential 1 metre lake levels increase during 18 the dewatering will create changes in the flow towards 19 Back River. 20 The EIS at this time is the yellow area you see in 21 the map. There is no reference on any topographic map 22 of the channels who connect the possible flow into the 23 Back River. We consider that the proponent need to 24 change this and present the data in the Final EIS. 25 This is a satellite imagine of the Third Portage 26 Lake, flow to Pipe Dream Lake and the possible channels. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00177 1 The lack of marine plan. Draft EIS need to have a 2 marine impact assessment in that. The Draft EIS is 3 deficient under NLCA Section 6.22, needs a development 4 plan, Section 6.2.3 needs a designated person who is 5 liable for the marine transport. That could impact 6 fish, marine mammals, caribou crossings. And they need 7 to be researched based on 10,000-tonne barges going 8 through the channel. 9 This is where we -- it is a map here referencing 10 what we need, a marine plan. Based on the information 11 we have right here, caribou area. We also have here 12 another area of impact including effect of marine 13 mammals on this chart. That is based only on the 14 information presented in draft. 15 Other issues, soil slumping during dewatering will 16 cause suspended solids and will not allow direct pumping 17 into the Third Portage Lake for as much as 50 percent of 18 the dewatering. 19 Fish salvage plan needs to be formalized and 20 scheduled. 21 Pit dikes may leak too much through the broken 22 bedrock. And this is also based on the information 23 provided from the proponent, KIA draw in here, in here, 24 this direct line here showing the faults that's 25 uncertain, I don't know whether leak or not and that's 26 faults because the pressure here. So if at this dam, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00178 1 the bentonite wall will not retain this, so then we have 2 a potential possible leakage under the pit area to the 3 lake. Collecting information at this time, we expect to 4 see this in the Final EIS to be addressed. 5 Other issues, Turn Lake crossing culvert 6 construction may not be permafrost and could spread 7 suspended solids into Drill Trail Lake, based, again, on 8 the Draft EIS, needs study to confirm there is going to 9 be permafrost in those areas. 10 Turn Lake crossing culvert may become blocked for 11 snow/ice. So we also identified, we require long-term 12 monitoring wells and existing well area is possible it 13 is going to be destroyed due to the development. So in 14 the actual plan there is no long-term monitoring for 15 that. 16 And this is the layout of the Draft EIS, so we have 17 here the waste rock. And, again, this is information 18 presented for the proponent. The first map, the white 19 area show you the area of monitoring, the wells 20 monitored in the area. During the development, all of 21 these monitoring stations will be practically done 22 because you are going to have an open pit, you are going 23 to the pit, you are going to have the tailing. So it is 24 left in that map of overlaying the blueprint only one 25 monitoring station. So that is why it is likely this 26 because they will need a monitoring, and this is what it DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00179 1 is in the wishing list. 2 Now, we have the waste rock, now it is less area in 3 the waste rock, but it is not documented. So we need 4 that to be documented in the Final EIS. 5 Other issues part 3. Vault attenuation pond may 6 release metals and nitrates into the environment during 7 the reflooding. 8 Wildlife may be attracted to the tailings as a salt 9 lick. The Draft EIS needs a deterrent plan to address 10 this issue, also needs a Nunavummiut involvement plan to 11 actually carry on with this activity. 12 The Draft EIS needs more community relation 13 committees. The Kivalliq region will be consulted 14 concerning socio-economic impacts and related to that. 15 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 16 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your 17 presentation, KIA and NTI. We will do question period 18 at 7 o'clock because supper starts at 5:30. We will be 19 back at 7 o'clock for questions. Thank you. Sorry? 20 Okay. After the presentations, we are going to do 21 a couple of more presentations from Department of 22 Fisheries, Hamlet and Acres International. Back after 23 supper. Thank you. 24 (ADJOURNED AT 5:25 P.M.) 25 (RECONVENED AT 7:01 p.m.) 26 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Welcome back, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00180 1 everybody. We broke at KivIA and NTI just finishing up 2 their presentation, and we are going to do a question 3 period. I will go through my list. Before I start, 4 Bill has a few things to say. 5 BILL TILLEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 6 The first thing is we have just heard from the KIA and 7 NTI presentation, and so we need to file their 8 presentation into the record as Exhibit number 8, so I 9 propose to do that. 10 And then the second thing is more of a general kind 11 of comment which is we have just heard from the 12 proponent on a summary of the nine points which NIRB had 13 sent out to all parties, and so some of the other 14 parties have given us their thoughts in writing on those 15 nine points, but it would be helpful if all the parties, 16 even if like Mr. Donihee did is give us a summary of 17 their response to the nine points at the end of their 18 presentation. And so that, through you, sir, is a 19 request of help keep the process as outlined by the 20 Board. 21 With that, then those are my comments, Mr. 22 Chairman. 23 EXHIBIT 8: NTI AND KIA PRESENTATION 24 CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you. 25 Questions to KivIA and NTI on the presentation? 26 Cumberland Resources, any questions? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00181 1 CRAIG GOODINGS: No questions. But I would 2 like to say first of all thanks for going over the 3 documents so thoroughly. It can only help making a 4 better mine with eyes looking at the various things we 5 are going to do. It is a very complicated process, and 6 so your points of observation have been well taken up. 7 And I know that through the course of consultation that 8 we can -- our differences of opinion of the engineering 9 can be resolved, no doubt about that, so thank you 10 again. 11 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. INAC, any 12 questions? 13 CARL McLEAN: No questions, Mr. Chair. 14 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 15 Fisheries and Oceans? 16 DERRICK MOGGY: I have no questions. 17 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Natural 18 Resources Canada? 19 ROB JOHNSTONE: I have no questions. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Acres 21 International? 22 ACRES INTERNATIONAL QUESTIONS NTI AND KIA 23 Q RAMLI HALIM: Mr. Chairman, Ramli Halim 24 with Acres International. 25 I am wondering if I could actually take a look at a 26 slide that you have mentioned about the projection DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00182 1 temperature trend. It is the projected temperature 2 trend, I think it is number -- yes, that slide. 3 CHAIRPERSON: Can we turn the lights 4 down, please? 5 Q RAMLI HALIM: Okay. In the drawing, 6 correct me if I am wrong, if I look at that drawing, 7 this is you are trying to mention that the trend, global 8 tend that's following the draft. I am a little bit 9 nervous when I look at this data that in terms of 10 interpretation, like the data is only 15 years old, I 11 mean 1985 to 1990. If I can go through the dot point, 12 which is probably the measuring point, I can even 13 suggest that in the last two years is the -- temperature 14 is actually, it is actually getting colder, it is going 15 down, you can see, instead of going up. So I am 16 extremely nervous if you want to use the data because of 17 the fairly limited monitoring. 18 And I think you have to be careful when you do a 19 study. There is probably no local data available, but I 20 think we should follow a general prediction that is 21 being done by others that covers a much larger range of 22 years in terms of data gathering. I was wondering how 23 you can comment on that one. 24 A JEFF MARTIN: Thanks for the question. 25 Jeff Martin from SENES Consultants assisting here. 26 The blue line there is Baker Lake, a mean annual DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00183 1 air temperature at the top of the graph. It shows from 2 1985 to 2004. And just a straight linear interpretation 3 suggests that the temperature there is going up about 4 eight and a half degrees in the next hundred years if 5 that trend continues. 6 Now, you can see that year to year the temperature 7 did go down at the end of that period, so that's more 8 than was used in the Draft EIS to predict global 9 warming, I think that was five and a half degrees. So 10 all that is showing is just their -- that five and a 11 half degrees may be correct, but there is also the 12 situation where recently the temperature has seemed to 13 increase more than that. 14 But as you can see, there is some uncertainty. It 15 is not perfect by any means, but the suggestion then is 16 that at least you should consider what's happening under 17 this scenario where the temperature is increasing a 18 little faster than sort of the average for a larger area 19 in Canada. Does that answer your question. 20 Q RAMLI HALIM: Yeah, Mr. Chairman. Yes, 21 actually I just want to point out that I think you have 22 to be careful when you do modelling because everything 23 is dependant on the assumption you are going to make. 24 And I feel that for 15 years, being that the data, I 25 still see there could be a cycle that things are 26 actually going the other way around. I think that's the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00184 1 important part. 2 And I believe there was a report was done for INAC 3 that probably provides a more general trend of 4 temperature as global warming, and I also recall there 5 is information from Environment Canada, if I am not 6 mistaken. 7 And that one, I know that it is not taken exactly 8 in the Baker Lake area, but I guess we have to be 9 careful when you try to use modelling that this trend, 10 if I see -- maybe it is partly correct, but it is a 11 possibility that you can draw a different line, that's 12 basically the point I would like to point out. 13 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 14 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any questions 15 from the local residents to KivIA and NTI's 16 presentation? Local residents? NIRB staff, any 17 questions? 18 BILL TILLEMAN: Sorry, Mr. Chairman. 19 Before we begin, I see the mic is still on by the KivIA, 20 and I don't know if that meant they wanted to respond to 21 Ramli? If you wanted to say something, you have the 22 right to do it, and I just couldn't quite read your body 23 language. 24 JEFF MARTIN: Yes, I will just make one 25 more comment on the warming scenario. I guess if you 26 have got a colder -- if you have no warming, then it is DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00185 1 not an issue, I guess. Sort of on the precautionary 2 or the safe side, I guess the point of this graph is you 3 should consider that a more extreme warming. And the 4 reason for that is that it determines how deep your 5 active layer is. Or even in the very long term, if you 6 have an active layer, but the active layer is important 7 if you are using it to control drainage from the waste 8 rock and tailings. Thanks. 9 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 10 JOHN DONIHEE: Mr. Chairman, I spoke with 11 Ms. Gilson just before the session resumed. There was 12 one slide in the presentation from KIA and NTI that 13 talked about a marine plan, and it made reference to two 14 sections of the Nunavut Land Claims agreement, 6.2.2 and 15 6.2.3, and I just want to give notice to the Chair that 16 we will be addressing this issue in our closing comments 17 at the end of the day tomorrow. 18 CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Okay. 19 Where was I, NIRB staff? NIRB staff, any questions? 20 Sorry? Do you have any questions to the last comments 21 there? 22 KIMBERLEY GILSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 23 Kim Gilson, legal counsel to the KIA. 24 As Mr. Donihee has just mentioned, this point was 25 brought to our attention just a few moments ago. 26 Unfortunately, the consultant who had prepared this DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00186 1 document isn't available to answer the question 2 directly. 3 What I will say is that the comments that he made 4 were that: 5 "The reviewers feel that the statement in the 6 supporting document, project alternatives 7 report, Section 10.1: 'A barge should be 8 capable of carrying about 6,000 tonnes of cargo 9 safely through the most restricted part of the 10 inlet is not supported by any documentation and 11 is grossly deficient for an EIS in terms of 12 detailing the impacts of marine transport on the 13 environment in Chesterfield Inlet." 14 I believe that's only a partial answer to the concern, 15 but just so at this point the Board knows that that was 16 the thinking behind -- I believe behind the point that 17 he was trying to make. And we will clarify it and 18 provide additional information if available for 19 tomorrow. Thank you. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Back to 21 questions? NIRB staff? 22 NIRB STAFF QUESTIONS KIA AND NTI 23 Q STEPHEN LINES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 24 My question was for both KIA and NTI, and it was 25 regarding the all-season access road. And I was 26 wondering from an impact assessment point of view DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00187 1 whether you had specific concerns related to either 2 socio-economic or biophysical impacts related to the 3 road? 4 A LUIS MANZO: As you will know, the 5 proponent in the beginning of the presentation, we 6 mentioned that they complied with most of it, and that 7 area is wildlife included. In terms of the 8 socio-economics of the road, Cumberland and KIA will 9 deal with those in the appropriate time. 10 STEPHEN LINES: Thank you. 11 CHAIRPERSON: Carolanne? 12 Q CAROLANNE INGLIS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I 13 am just wondering if I could ask KIA and NTI the source 14 for the caribou where you identified the five caribou 15 migration routes along the all-weather road? 16 A LUIS MANZO: That's identified from the 17 proponent also as well. We chose, took the information 18 from the EIS and relayed that, your reference to the 19 road. And that's what right now the information they 20 collected. So what we are saying is we have a new part 21 of the project, so therefore we need to assess its 22 impacts. 23 Q CAROLANNE INGLIS: Thank you, Mr. Chair. And 24 just to follow up to that, I was just interested in 25 specifically the sources that you overlayed over top of 26 the all-weather road to indicate that there would be DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00188 1 five migration crossings. 2 A LUIS MANZO: That information is from 3 DIAND and NRCan, that's who we got the information off 4 for that. 5 CHAIRPERSON: Craig, did you have a 6 comment on that? 7 CRAIG GOODINGS: No, I was just going to 8 help KIA out. We also found that same information in 9 our traditional knowledge. Those are not major 10 migration routes, those are just areas the animals can 11 cross easily through, they are not huge routes. But we 12 picked it up in our traditional knowledge, so it's -- we 13 included it as well. So we know that there is caribou 14 moving across at specific spots, but they are not in 15 large numbers. 16 CHAIRPERSON: Carolanne? Sorry, 17 Karlette? 18 Q KARLETTE TUNALEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 19 First to the slide, how did you identify those quarry 20 sites, because they haven't been identified by 21 Cumberland yet? You show quarry sites on your map 22 there. 23 A LUIS MANZO: Yeah. 24 Q KARLETTE TUNALEY: That's new information. 25 A LUIS MANZO: That's the only signs we 26 can identify, according to the topographic maps so far. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00189 1 Those are possible quarry sites in the area. So for our 2 means, if you are going to build the road, you need more 3 quarry. So they show it in there that's a quarry to a 4 certain distance, so we wanted to know which of it is 5 for road, based on what findings do we get. 6 So if you notice -- if you are going to -- let's 7 say you are going to truck the quarry from one point to 8 another, that will require more material at that point. 9 So it is not identified, which is just showing -- which 10 is right now the ground is being identified as the 11 quarries. 12 CRAIG GOODINGS: We haven't identified any 13 quarry locations yet; however, we will definitely need 14 quarries and borrow pits where it is appropriate. So 15 whether they are right or wrong on the map, whether the 16 numbers are right or wrong, that has not been determined 17 yet. But I think the idea was for them to indicate 18 these are impacts that we need to address, and we fully 19 accept that we need to do that, but not necessarily on 20 those locations. 21 KARLETTE TUNALEY: Thank you. 22 CHAIRPERSON: Any other questions from 23 the staff? Any questions from the Board members to NTI 24 and KivIA? Thank you for your presentation. Go ahead. 25 KIMBERLEY GILSON: I believe Mr. Tilleman had 26 asked if we would make comments on the nine points DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00190 1 before we concluded. 2 CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, go ahead. 3 KIMBERLEY GILSON: If it is appropriate, I 4 would just take a quick moment and do that. 5 With respect to the points as they were addressed 6 by Cumberland earlier, the only additional comments we 7 would have is with respect to point number 3 in the list 8 of issues, KIA agrees that we did develop, over the time 9 of the technical meeting, a list of issues which we 10 attempted to make as comprehensive as possible. So our 11 only comment is that it will be a significant resource 12 in terms of determining the work that is to be done in 13 order to get to the Final EIS, but we wouldn't want our 14 silence to be interpreted as that necessarily 15 encompassing everything and everything. We are hopeful 16 that we have challenged them appropriately but that 17 there may be some additional things that need to be 18 done. 19 Also, in addition, point number 5, the schedule, 20 Mr. Donihee mentioned that the work is, hopefully, going 21 to be done largely by the fall and that the documents 22 would be filed as appropriate. And, again , we don't 23 challenge that. The only thing that we would comment on 24 is that we are hopeful that given commitments from 25 Cumberland, that they will provide documents as 26 available to us in order to assist us as early as DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00191 1 possible to resolve issues, that we are going to rely on 2 that commitment the documents will be produced and 3 distributed as best they can and soon as they can. 4 Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Thank you again 6 for your presentation. 7 LUIS MANZO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 8 CHAIRPERSON: Next we have Department of 9 Fisheries and Oceans for their presentation. 10 PRESENTATION BY DEPARTMENT OF FISHERIES AND OCEANS 11 DERRICK MOGGY: Good evening, Mr. Chairman 12 and members of the Board. My name is Derrick Moggy. I 13 am a habitat management biologist with Fisheries and 14 Oceans Canada from Iqaluit. 15 Today I would like to provide a belief overview of 16 the role DFO plays in the review of the Meadowbank Gold 17 Project. I would like to provide a brief outline of our 18 mandate of Fisheries and Oceans and the legislation that 19 we work from. I would also like to describe the 20 approach DFO takes to the technical review, and then I 21 would like to provide a brief summary of our technical 22 comments we provided to the Nunavut Impact Review Board. 23 D FO's mandate is to protect and conserve fish and 24 fish habitat to ensure sustainable fisheries for 25 Canadians. The Fisheries Act provides the legal basis 26 for this responsibility. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00192 1 Within Nunavut, DFO has several programs in support 2 of this mandate. These includes a fish habitat 3 management program, fisheries management program, as 4 well as a conservation and protection program which 5 supports both fisheries and habitat management. Signed 6 support is provided through our regional office in 7 Winnipeg. Within Nunavut, we work from two offices, 8 including Rankin Inlet and Iqaluit. 9 For the habitat management program, our involvement 10 with the review of the Meadowbank Gold Project is due to 11 the habitat protection provisions of the Fisheries Act. 12 A brief summary of these section is as follows: Section 13 20 relates to ensuring that there is safe fish passage, 14 and this may result due to alterations to water courses 15 or the installation of culverts. Section 22 relates to 16 ensuring there is sufficient water flow to allow fish to 17 carry out life processes, such as migration and 18 spawning. 19 Section 30 is the requirement for fish guards and 20 screens on water intakes and diversions. Screens are 21 designed to prevent fish from being drawn into a water 22 intake or held in contact with a screen and unable to 23 free itself. 24 Section 32 is for the protection of fish as a 25 result of activities, such as the use of explosives in 26 or near fish habitat or dewatering areas of fish DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00193 1 habitat. Of course, Section 35 is the one that we deal 2 with primarily. 3 Section 36 prohibits the deposit of deleterious 4 substances. And DFO does have responsibilities for all 5 sections of the Fisheries Act, but through a memorandum 6 of understanding with Environment Canada, Environment 7 Canada administers and enforces this section. Sediment 8 is one area where we do have some overlap with because 9 it has the potential to impact fish habitat. 10 Just briefly over our policy, which is what we work 11 from. The overall objective is to achieve a net gain in 12 the productive capacity of fish habitat. This is 13 achieved through three goals. The conservation goal is 14 used to maintain existing fish habitat. The no-net-loss 15 principle is fundamental to this goal, and so DFO 16 strives to balance unavoidable habitat losses with 17 habitat replacement on a project-by-project basis so 18 that further reductions to Canada's fisheries resources 19 due to habitat loss or damage may be prevented. 20 The principle offers flexibility in the search for 21 solutions by both D FO and the proponent. The 22 restoration goal is used to restore damage to fish 23 habitat where there can be an economic or social benefit 24 realized. The development goal is used to create or 25 improve fish habitat, again, in areas where there can be 26 an economic or a social benefit. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00194 1 So like I had mentioned before, Section 35 is what 2 we deal with primarily. Where it can't be -- sorry, it 3 states that no person shall carry on any work or 4 undertaking that results in a harmful alteration, 5 disruption or destruction of fish habitat, and the short 6 form we use is a HADD. And where a HADD can't be 7 avoided or mitigated, the Minister of Fisheries and 8 Oceans has -- may authorize the HADD of fish habitat. 9 This provides the means and conditions for allowing 10 development projects to take place. 11 What is a HADD? The definition underneath there 12 describes it fairly accurately, but I would like to 13 break it down a bit further. A harmful alteration to 14 fish habitat involves any change that indefinitely 15 reduces the capacity to support one or more life 16 processes of fish but does not completely eliminate that 17 habitat. And that might involve a change in substrate, 18 such as going from gravel to silt because of dredging. 19 A disruption to fish habitat involves any change 20 occurring for a limited period which reduces its 21 capacity to support fish -- one or more life processes 22 of fish, and this might include dewatering an area of 23 fish habitat for an extended period of time. 24 A destruction of fish habitat would involve the 25 permanent change, which completely eliminates its 26 capacity to support one of more life processes of fish. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00195 1 The most common example of this is infilling associated 2 with the construction of a dam, a dike or a causeway. 3 In considering whether to issue an authorization, 4 DFO works with the proponent to look at options to 5 relocate or redesign the project or its components to 6 avoid impacts to fish habitat. The use of mitigation 7 measures such as timing and sediment control can be used 8 to avoid impacts to fish habitat, either on their own or 9 in combination with relocation and redesign options. 10 Where it proves unfeasible to avoid that impact, 11 DFO needs to consider whether the potential loss is 12 acceptable. We may consider such things as the 13 importance of the habitat, whether the effects will be 14 temporary or permanent, where the HADD will cause a 15 significant -- whether the HADD will cause a significant 16 change in the capacity of habitat to produce fish, and 17 whether the authorization would set a precedent that 18 could lead to future cumulative effects. 19 And finally the issuance of an authorization is 20 contingent upon an acceptable no-net-loss plan. On-site 21 compensation is an option where the site rehabilitation 22 can successfully be undertaken. Compensation can also 23 take place off site and is normally the only option 24 where are long-term impacts to habitat that are simply 25 destroyed on site. 26 It should be noted that even though a proponent may DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00196 1 be willing to undertake compensation, it is viewed as 2 the least preferred option since the success of 3 compensation in maintaining productive capacity of fish 4 habitat isn't always certain. As a result, DFO's 5 preferred approach is to mitigate impacts to the extent 6 possible. 7 A few other pieces of legislation that DFO has 8 responsibilities under include the Nunavut Land Claim 9 Agreement; Species at Risk Act, which we have 10 responsibilities for listed aquatic species, including 11 fish; and the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, 12 which must be completed before a Fisheries Act 13 authorization is issued. 14 To the Meadowbank project. The Draft EIS for the 15 Meadowbank Gold Project was submitted to NIRB in late 16 December 2004. NIRB is currently reviewing the project 17 under Part 5, Article 12 of the Land Claim. The 18 technical review of the Draft EIS was completed May 19 20th, followed by a technical meeting held last week. 20 Although DFO has provided a full technical review 21 of the draft to NIRB, we would like to provide a brief 22 summary of some of the key comments we had. 23 We would also like to note that many, if not all of 24 our recommendations for the completion of -- for 25 completing the Final EIS have been addressed through the 26 technical comments, commitments and some discussion DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00197 1 today here at the conference. DFO expects to work 2 cooperatively with Cumberland to address these concerns. 3 Several inadequacy items related to the project 4 description were identified, this includes the access 5 road, the marine landing facility, the fresh water 6 intake, the airport and the tailings impoundment area. 7 For the access road, Cumberland still needs to 8 clarify and address outstanding information relating to 9 the preferred option, that being the all-weather road. 10 Issues associated with the marine landing facility 11 include a need for a description and assessment of the 12 shipping route. Cumberland still needs to identify a 13 single location for their fresh water intake pipe. 14 The Draft EIS suggests that the airport facility 15 may encroach into Third Portage Lake, and as such, this 16 needs to be clarified. We also look for an analysis of 17 the long-term stability of the tailings impoundment dam 18 as well. 19 Consistent with DFO's approach to explore 20 relocation and redesign options, we provided several 21 comments on the alternatives of several project 22 components. This included the location and the 23 orientation of the dewatering dikes, specifically the 24 westernly portion of the Goose Island dike and the east 25 dike, as well as clarification on the location of a 26 south dike. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00198 1 We also requested further evaluation on the 2 decision matrix for the tailings impoundment area. This 3 is particularly important, as the preferred location for 4 the tailings impoundment area will use a portion of 5 Second Portage Lake, which is a fish-bearing water body 6 and will therefore require designation under the Metal 7 Mining Effluent Regulations of the Fisheries Act. 8 The option to use a fish-bearing water body should 9 be one of last resort and needs to be supported with 10 strong justification. Cumberland has stated that the 11 waste rock pile will not impact fish-bearing waters, and 12 I think they have confirmed that today. 13 We have also requested alternatives to encroaching 14 into Third Portage Lake due to the airport, the shipping 15 route and clarification on the access road. 16 Several inadequacy items related to Cumberland's 17 baseline data specific to fisheries included the 18 assessment of specific details relating to the baseline 19 aquatic data could be not be fully assessed without 20 reviewing previous yearly reports. This is necessary to 21 determine whether natural variability has been 22 adequately sampled to allow for project-related impacts 23 to be monitored during construction, operation and 24 closure, as well as providing support to potential fish 25 habitat enhancements, such as fish passage. 26 The presence of fish and fish habitat in several DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00199 1 water bodies needs to be determined by Cumberland and 2 needs to include adequate sampling techniques and time. 3 Potential improvements to fish passage need to be 4 supported with adequate sampling to demonstrate that, in 5 fact, this will be improved. 6 Cumberland has developed a fish habitat model which 7 needs to be compared to other models used in Northern 8 mining projects. The model needs to be supported with 9 baseline fisheries data. 10 The items DFO identified in the impact assessment 11 that require further clarification and assessment were 12 several items related to the construction of the dike, 13 specifically the source of till for the construction of 14 the East and Bay Zone dike, their use of sediment 15 curtains and the timing of the placement of ultramafic 16 rock. 17 Water crossing designs for the all-weather road and 18 Turn Lake crossing need to be further evaluated for 19 their impacts to fish and fish habitat. 20 Cumberland is using a no-fishing policy for 21 operations but should assess the potential increased 22 fishing pressure due to the all-weather road. 23 The predicted impacts due to pit dewatering, 24 particularly during high water years needs to consider 25 fish habitat along the shores of Third Portage Lake and 26 the downstream connecting channels, as well as other DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00200 1 possibilities to manage this access water. 2 The use of spring freshets reflood impounded areas 3 needs to consider impacts on potential fish passage 4 during spring. 5 A blast design report needs to be submitted to take 6 into account ice cover. The fresh water intake pipe 7 needs to be located away from sensitive fish habitat and 8 designed to protect all species in Third Portage Lake. 9 The revised water quality predictions need to 10 consider whether fish habitat along the dikes during 11 operation and closure will be productive, and if not, 12 how long it will be before water quality improves to a 13 point that will not impact sensitive life stages of 14 fish. 15 And, finally, Cumberland needs to present the 16 ultimate fate of salvaged fish from the dewatered water 17 bodies. 18 With respect to the review of the management plans, 19 DFO identified several inadequacies related to the 20 no-net-loss and the access management plan. The 21 no-net-loss plan needs to include a fish habitat model 22 that accounts for all habitat losses, regardless of 23 species and habitat type. 24 Improving access to lakes supporting fish needs to 25 be carefully considered for their impacts to fish -- to 26 existing fish populations. Lakes that currently support DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00201 1 fish populations will not be included as gains in fish 2 habitat. 3 A contingency plan should be provided in the event 4 failures or delays may occur, and the gains in fish 5 habitat associated with the potential tailings 6 impoundment area need to be presented separately from 7 other project-affected areas. 8 And should the winter road access be used, which I 9 understand it is not being, we were looking for sources 10 of water taking should be identified to ensure that they 11 are not impacting fish or fish habitat. 12 The items identified in the closure and reclamation 13 portion that were inadequately addressed in the Draft 14 EIS included further clarification on site facilities to 15 be disposed of in the waste pits and the feasibility of 16 removing additional dike area upon closure, which would 17 support restoring additional fish habitat. 18 And we would just like to respond to the nine 19 points that were brought up. DFO generally agrees with 20 the approach Cumberland is suggesting, and I don't have 21 anything more to add on that then. Thank you. 22 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your 23 presentation. Questions, Cumberland Resources? 24 CRAIG GOODINGS: I have no questions except 25 to say thanks for going through the documents, and I 26 know you and Randy will work together on resolving all DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00202 1 of these issues. 2 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. KivIA and NTI, 3 any questions? Thank you. INAC, any questions? 4 CARL McLEAN: No questions, Mr. Chair. 5 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Natural 6 Resources Canada, questions? 7 ROB JOHNSTONE: No questions, Mr. 8 Chairperson. 9 CHAIRPERSON: Acres International, any 10 questions? 11 RAMLI HALIM: No questions, Mr. Chairman. 12 CHAIRPERSON: Local residents, Elders, 13 any questions for Department of Fisheries and Oceans? 14 Thank you. NIRB staff? 15 NIRB STAFF QUESTIONS DFO 16 Q STEPHEN LINES: I just have one question, 17 Derrick. What was the additional baseline data that DFO 18 was looking for? 19 A DERRICK MOGGY: Well, I talked to Randy 20 about this too, and it was more or less integrated into 21 their EIS there, and I just requested to have a look at 22 some of their year-by-year stuff so I could go through 23 and have a better sense for what needs to be addressed 24 in that. 25 STEPHEN LINES: Thank you. 26 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00203 1 questions, NIRB staff? Board members, any questions? 2 Thank you for your presentation. 3 DERRICK MOGGY: Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON: Next we have Acres 5 International. Bill? 6 BILL TILLEMAN: Thank you. Before Ramli 7 sits down, I just wanted to make sure we have that 8 presentation filed and marked as an exhibit. And I note 9 that I think we have two different versions of it, so if 10 we can just ask Mr. Moggy to file the presentation, and 11 we will mark that as Exhibit number 9. The electronic 12 copy, we will take what we can get. 13 DERRICK MOGGY: I think Karlette has a copy 14 of it. 15 BILL TILLEMAN: So we have a copy of 16 electronic and paper. 17 CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me, Bill or Derrick, 18 can you speak into the mic so we can get it on the 19 record? 20 BILL TILLEMAN: Mr. Chairman, I propose 21 that we file the presentation that we just had by DFO, 22 we will mark it as Exhibit number 9, it will be the 23 written and E version of what was presented by Mr. 24 Moggy, and that's my recommendation. 25 DERRICK MOGGY: I provided a copy to 26 Karlette already, so I think she has an electronic copy. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00204 1 I don't have a paper copy other than the ones that were 2 provided at the back, if that's okay. 3 KARLETTE TUNALEY: I just need to confirm that 4 I have the electronic copy. 5 DERRICK MOGGY: It is on this computer up 6 here too. 7 EXHIBIT 9: ELECTRONIC COPY AND HARD 8 COPY OF DFO PRESENTATION 9 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Acres 10 International. 11 PRESENTATION BY ACRES INTERNATIONAL 12 RAMLI HALIM: Good evening, Mr. Chairman, 13 members of the Nunavut Impact Review Board, residents of 14 Baker Lake, ladies and gentlemen. 15 Thank you for the opportunity to make my 16 presentation for the prehearing conference today. My 17 name is Ramli Halim. I'm a geotechnical engineer and 18 have spent over 20 years on engineering projects across 19 Canada and overseas. 20 I have been involved in the work in the northern 21 communities for many years, both on the geotechnical and 22 geoenvironmental-related activities. 23 I work at Acres International Limited in our 24 Winnipeg office in Manitoba. Acres is a 25 multi-discipline engineering company, and the company 26 has been involved in a number of engineering projects DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00205 1 for the Canadian northern communities. 2 Acres has been retained by the Nunavut Impact 3 Review Board as an independent consultant to review the 4 technical aspect of some of the supporting documents 5 prepared by Cumberland Resources Limited as part of the 6 Draft Environmental Impact Statement submission for the 7 proposed Meadowbank Gold Mine Project. 8 This slide is presented to provide an overall time 9 line on what we have accomplished on the Meadowbank Gold 10 Mine Project. It shows the processes that have been 11 followed prior to the issuance of the Environmental 12 Impact Statement document by Cumberland. 13 The application process for the Meadowbank Gold 14 Mine Project was initiated by the submittal of the 15 project proposal information requirement form and the 16 project description report to NIRB on March 31st, 2003. 17 The project description report was subsequently 18 forwarded to the Nunavut Planning Commission for 19 conformity with the applicable land use plan. On 20 September 23rd, 2003, NIRB completed a screening process 21 and determined that the Cumberland proposal required a 22 public review under Parts 5 and 6 of the Nunavut Land 23 Claim Agreement. 24 As part of the review process, Cumberland was 25 required to submit an environmental impact statement 26 report. NIRB provided a guideline to Cumberland in DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00206 1 regards to the contents of the EIS report in February 2 2004. 3 The DEIS document, along with its supporting 4 document, was submitted by Cumberland to NIRB on January 5 4th, 2005. Following the submission, a conformity 6 review was carried out by NIRB with inputs from the 7 various regulators, including Government of Nunavut, 8 INAC, DFO, Environment Canada, Natural Resources of 9 Canada, Kivalliq Inuit association, Transport Canada and 10 many others. 11 A conformity decision on the DEIS was made by NIRB 12 in March 2005 and identified a number of issues which 13 required further follow-up by Cumberland. Cumberland 14 responded to this issue in their reports dated April 4th 15 and April 30th, 2005. 16 Subsequently, technical meetings between Cumberland 17 and the various parties were held here last Thursday and 18 Friday. During the two-day meeting, a consensus was 19 thought among the participants on the technical meeting, 20 on the technical background and status of the Draft EIS 21 so that a process to produce the Final EIS document can 22 move forward. 23 The Draft Environmental Impact Statement document 24 is divided into two parts, part one contains the main 25 report, and part 2 contains five appendices. In 26 addition to the DEIS document, Cumberland also provided DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00207 1 NIRB with a number of supporting documents. These 2 documents are divided into four components: the baseline 3 report, impact assessment, management and monitoring 4 plans and the project alternatives report. 5 As an independent consultant, Acres was requested 6 to review three of the Cumberland submissions of the 7 supporting documents for the Draft Environmental Impact 8 Statement. These supporting documents are: the baseline 9 physical ecosystem report, which was dated January 2005; 10 physical environmental impact assessment report dated 11 2004, and mine waste and water management report dated 12 January 2005. 13 Our review on these three supporting documents 14 generally accounts for the majority of the related 15 engineering activities for the construction and the 16 development of the mine. We didn't actually review the 17 air quality and the noise. 18 In particular, these documents focussed on issues 19 that are related to the geotechnical, the 20 geoenvironmental and hydrological aspects of the 21 project. 22 Our comments and review of the documents are 23 presented in the form of questions, comments, issues, 24 tables. A review report was submitted by Acres to the 25 Nunavut Impact Review Board on May 20, 2005. Some of 26 the important issues presented in the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00208 1 question/comment/issue tables are more critical than a 2 number of other issues, and these were provided in the 3 body of the report. 4 Acres' review can generally be summarized as 5 follows: At that time, when we reviewed these 6 documents, there is a few things that we found missing, 7 the first one is the missing references detailing 8 supporting documents. Field investigation, analysis 9 testing and design modelling and other work that had 10 been completed were stated in the documents; however, 11 many of these results or the detailed data supporting 12 the arguments present in the documents have not been 13 referenced, are not presented in the DEIS or are not 14 available for review at all. 15 The second one is about some data gaps which needed 16 clarification, supporting details, and at that time we 17 thought perhaps they need some additional data. To 18 differentiate on the first issue about the missing 19 reference, it was anticipated that some investigation or 20 follow-up work to be carried out to provide supporting 21 data for the design or analysis were incomplete. 22 The third point that we found in the process of 23 reviewing this document is we feel there is a missing of 24 mine plan showing a physical and engineering details for 25 the various infrastructures at the mine site. The 26 information about the mine plan and its infrastructures DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00209 1 were limited and not detailed in the DEIS. Some of this 2 information, however, were mentioned or described in the 3 various supporting documents. 4 As an example, when we reviewed the three 5 documents, it would appear that some detailed 6 information and design aspect of a number of the 7 structures such as the dike, tailings and waste rock 8 disposal areas were presented in the supporting document 9 but the detailed were not summarized in the systematic 10 way in the Draft Environmental Impact Statement report. 11 And fourth issue that we raised during the initial 12 review of the documents is the infrastructures at Baker 13 Lake, such as the barge landing and staging facilities, 14 as well as the all-weather mine access road, which at 15 the time was supposed to be a winter road from the mine 16 site at Baker Lake were poorly presented in the Draft 17 Environmental Impact Statement. 18 There was no information on the details of 19 background or baseline data for these areas and very 20 limited discussion on the physical impact assessment for 21 this infrastructures and for mine access road. As these 22 infrastructures are part of the mine operation, physical 23 issues, which have potential impacts on the environment, 24 such as contamination on land and water, effects on 25 permafrost, groundwater, et cetera, must also be 26 discussed and presented in the supporting documents to DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00210 1 complete the Final EIS submission. 2 A technical meeting was held in Baker Lake last 3 Thursday and Friday, June the 2nd and 3rd, 2005. The 4 intention of the meeting was to bring the engineers and 5 scientists who work on the preparation and on the 6 reviews of the Draft Environmental Impact Statement 7 together and to discuss about the technical issues of 8 the project. 9 The following engineering/technical issues were 10 covered during the two-day technical meeting. I tried 11 to provide only brief descriptions. I don't want to 12 repeat the whole technical meeting on the technical 13 issues and discussions for this prehearing conference. 14 I also tried to provide just a basic explanation on some 15 of the technical terms discussed in the meeting. 16 The first once we discussed about the baseline 17 data, the discussion dealt with the various 18 geotechnical, geochemical and hydrology data at the mine 19 site. Geotechnical issues include subsurface soil and 20 bedrock condition, groundwater obtained from the field 21 investigation, et cetera. The geochemical data include 22 the chemical test carried out on soil, on rock and water 23 samples, hydrology data and precipitation data, wind, 24 temperature. 25 The second one we also discussed about is 26 permafrost condition and the presence of taliks. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00211 1 Just for an explanation, taliks is the unfrozen 2 zone within the permafrost, which is usually located 3 under the lakes. The presence of taliks undermines the 4 stability of some of the structures, such as the dike 5 and the tailing disposal area, and it also has the 6 potential for some groundwater movement of the taliks 7 into the deep groundwater regime. 8 We discuss about foundation for dikes and other 9 structures, some stability and seepage to the dike. We 10 talk about soil rock and water geochemistry. 11 The mining activities result in excavation of soil, 12 rock in the mine pit, construction of the dike, 13 development of waste rock and tailings disposal 14 facility. The soil, rock and water geochemistry need to 15 be determined or identified to ensure that any potential 16 impact on the environment could be minimized. 17 We also talk about hydrology and hydrogeological 18 condition. These terms relate to the stream and 19 groundwater flows, snow and precipitation, air and 20 ground temperature, watershed, drainage condition, et 21 cetera. 22 We talk about waste rock and tailing disposal 23 facility where excavated rock, which does not have any 24 values or tailings from the processing mill, will be 25 stockpiled. Material balance for dike construction, 26 which include borrow sources, quantity and quality of DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00212 1 the material in terms of its physical properties, as 2 well as its chemical properties. 3 We discuss about water balance for the mine 4 operation, including fresh water withdrawal from lakes 5 and reclaimed or recycled water. 6 We talk about local climate, global warming, local 7 seismicity, and we also talk about other geotechnical 8 considerations, such as the roadway, the culvert 9 crossing and drainage ditches. 10 The question is what were accomplished during this 11 technical meeting. At the end of the two-day meetings, 12 the following items were, I believe, accomplished. The 13 first one is a clarification on missing data and 14 references from Cumberland. The second one is gathering 15 of technical information and exchange of discussions 16 among the technical participants from the various 17 parties, including technical consultants from 18 Cumberland. 19 The third one we focus on providing a goal for 20 Cumberland to finalize their DEIS. That's the whole 21 point of the technical meeting is a process where we are 22 going to sit together and try to solve all the different 23 opinions between the participants and to come up with 24 some way to finalize the Draft Environmental Impact 25 Statement. 26 We tried to narrow down the differing opinions and DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00213 1 getting a consensus on how the Final EIS document would 2 be shaped from the DEIS. And finally we have tried to 3 provide a road map for Cumberland to complete a Final 4 EIS submission. 5 Now, after the technical meeting completed last 6 Friday, after exchanging of information and opinions 7 between Cumberland's technical team and the reviewers 8 during the technical meeting, we believe that the 9 following items represent our position on the technical 10 aspects of the document that we reviewed. 11 On the mine site, we believe that there is adequate 12 supporting data in the EIS design level, but we need to 13 improve on how to report and making the references of 14 the data. We need -- Cumberland needs to provide 15 detailed descriptions, analysis and supporting 16 justification on selection processes and alternatives 17 for the various design aspect. 18 Cumberland made improvements over what they call or 19 what we call changes on the mine operation and schedule 20 activities, but none of these are not yet available. 21 For the EIS level support design, we feel that 22 probably there is no immediate or additional field 23 investigation will be required. 24 For the Baker Lake and mine access road to 25 infrastructures and the all-weather access road to Baker 26 Lake remains outstanding issues. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00214 1 The following items would be our understanding on 2 Cumberland's commitments to proceed to the Final EIS. A 3 list of commitments was produced during the technical 4 meeting, and there is -- I think there is about over 100 5 issues that's being listed for commitments, even that, 6 there are still comments and probably some differing 7 opinions on what exactly has to be put there, but I 8 think this is a start in the right direction. 9 The changes related to the mine operation, 10 including schedule and its impact on the material and 11 water balance must be forwarded as soon as possible. 12 This is to avoid unnecessary delays to the process to 13 produce the Final EIS. 14 I think the process of finalizing the EIS must go 15 forward; however, depending on the commitment and the 16 submission of additional documents or analysis from 17 Cumberland, it actually makes quite a difference if they 18 can provide this information as soon as possible so that 19 the reviewer will be able to get some data feedback and 20 probably can revise their Final EIS at a better time 21 than another technical meeting a week before the Final 22 EIS public hearing. 23 And the third one is the references, background 24 data, detailed descriptions, analysis and supporting 25 justification on selection, process and alternatives for 26 the various design aspects must be included as part of DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00215 1 the FEIS submissions. 2 I think what -- that's my view of the process that 3 comes to the end of these technical meetings for the 4 Draft Environmental Impact Statement, and I have quite 5 an optimistic feeling that if all of this information is 6 available and we can get it as quickly as possible, I 7 think the sooner the better, that will be easier for us 8 to go through the process of finalizing the Final 9 Environmental Impact Statement. 10 That's all my intervention, and if there is any 11 questions. 12 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Before we do 13 that, do you have any comments on the nine points? 14 RAMLI HALIM: To be quite frankly, I'm 15 not quite familiar with the nine points. I think 16 probably we have to go through that. 17 JOHN DONIHEE: Mr. Chairman, this 18 gentleman represents NIRB. I am not sure it is 19 appropriate for him to be commenting on the nine points. 20 BILL TILLEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 21 He does not represent NIRB, he is an independent 22 consultant, and so maybe that was why he gave the answer 23 that he did, which was I commented on what I was asked 24 to do, and presumably that's what he did. So it would 25 be quite appropriate for him to say that he didn't know 26 anything about the nine points. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00216 1 He is an independent consultant to the Board. 2 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Questions to 3 Acres, Cumberland Resources? 4 CRAIG GOODINGS: No questions. Except, 5 again, thank you for taking the time to go through it, 6 and a lot of your suggestions are really good, and we 7 know it makes the document better than it was. Thank 8 you. 9 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. KIA, NTI, 10 questions? Thank you. Indian and Northern Affairs? 11 CARL McLEAN: We have no questions, Mr. 12 Chair. 13 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 14 Fisheries and Oceans? 15 DERRICK MOGGY: No questions, Mr. Chair. 16 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Natural 17 Resources Canada? 18 ROB JOHNSTONE: No questions, Mr. Chair. 19 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Local 20 residents, any questions to Acres International? NIRB 21 staff, questions? Steve? 22 NIRB STAFF QUESTIONS ACRES INTERNATIONAL 23 Q STEPHEN LINES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 24 Regarding the physical environments, what aspects do you 25 think are important to look at for the impact assessment 26 on the road, on the all-season road? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00217 1 A RAMLI HALIM: The road is -- most of the 2 information that we need for the road, when you have to 3 build a road, you have to know the soil condition and 4 the rock condition, in this case, probably it would be 5 more prevalent. I don't have any idea the existing 6 condition along the way. And, in general, we have to 7 know what permafrost condition, with the technology that 8 we have at this time, I don't have any -- I don't have 9 any -- I don't think I have any doubt that the road can 10 be engineered in such a way that it can work. 11 My only concern, actually, for the road is 12 basically how much money actually in terms of cost that 13 you are going to spend for the road. We have some 14 experience for some road in the northern communities 15 that sometimes they have some problem with permafrost, 16 and you will have to apply some special technique, for 17 example. Or another way to do that, you have to kind of 18 go around the soft areas or the boggy area, and so it is 19 actually a matter of how much money you are going to 20 spend. 21 And in one of my questions, actually, about this 22 road, what is actually eventually going to be the final 23 outcome of the road? Would the road be dismantled after 24 10 or 15 years of the mine? Because this is quite 25 important. You can design it, probably it could last 26 for 15 years with the maintenance that you need, but DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00218 1 after that, if the road was not designed for a longer 2 life, then you are going to start having problem with 3 the maintenance, for example. And so I think it is -- 4 the outcome of this would be depending on how they are 5 going to use the road after the mine is completed. 6 And then in terms of other information that you 7 need is just basically requirements for the regular 8 impact that you have to go to, the same way like you are 9 working on your site, for example, and it is a -- you 10 have to find out what is the impact of the creek 11 crossings, for example, in terms of the stability of 12 your embankment. Where are you going to get the 13 materials, and that's going to have an impact on the 14 location of quarries, and the quarry itself is going to 15 have some impact. What you are going to have to do 16 after, and you have to reclaim the quarries afterwards, 17 and you have to space your quarries in such a way 18 probably so that you can minimize the cost, so that you 19 don't have to travel a long distance, so that means you 20 are going to have to put more quarry than necessary, for 21 example. 22 And the other thing is this road is quite 23 important, because perhaps this is going to be one among 24 the first couple of roads, permanent all-weather roads 25 in Nunavut. The other one would be the Nanisivik mine 26 road and I believe the Bathurst Inlet road is not yet DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00219 1 started. So from the experience that's going to be one 2 along the first couple of road to be built in Nunavut, 3 so I guess probably that's quite important to know what 4 to look for in terms of the long-term use, what you are 5 going to do after. 6 Does that answer your question? 7 STEPHEN LINES: Yes, it does. Thank you. 8 CRAIG GOODINGS: As I mentioned last week, 9 we need the road for 15 years, and then we will take the 10 road out. 11 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 12 questions from the staff? Board members, any questions 13 to Acres International? Thank you very much for your 14 presentation. 15 RAMLI HALIM: Okay. Thank you, Mr. 16 Chairman. 17 CHAIRPERSON: We will take a five-minute 18 break, and after the break we will have the Hamlet of 19 Baker Lake. 20 (BRIEF RECESS) 21 CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Can we get started, 22 please? Thank you, everyone. 23 Our last presentation for tonight is the Hamlet of 24 Baker. 25 PRESENTATION BY THE HAMLET OF BAKER LAKE 26 TARA FESYK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00220 1 am Tara Fesyk. I'm the economic development officer for 2 the Hamlet of Baker Lake. 3 Unfortunately I do not have a formal presentation 4 for you today. The Hamlet of Baker Lake has submitted a 5 written response to the Draft EIS. I am not going to go 6 through these items in detail, but I would like to 7 stress our main concern being that the reliance on the 8 IIBA is the only document addressing socio-economic 9 issues for the community. 10 There are a lot of generalizations within the Draft 11 EIS but not specific details as to community projects, 12 training initiatives, infrastructure developments, et 13 cetera. 14 Environmental issues are being covered by all other 15 parties, but the Hamlet's biggest concern is our 16 community. 17 One thing I would like to comment on is regards to 18 the all-weather road. Cumberland stated at the 19 technical meetings last week that the Hamlet really 20 wants this road. That is correct, we really support 21 this. But also last week Cumberland stated that they 22 planned to dismantle the road at mine closure. 23 How does this help the community? The road brings 24 many economic development opportunities to us, for 25 example, tourism opportunities, but if the road is 26 dismantled after eight to ten years, what good is it to DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00221 1 us in the long term? This is just an example of where 2 plans need to be negotiated with the Hamlet so that we 3 can benefit from long-term infrastructure developments. 4 From the presentations made earlier today, it is 5 obvious that only a small percentage of time and effort 6 seems to be focussed on socio-economics. This is very 7 concerning and frustrating. 8 Parties are concerned for and looking after the 9 soil, the water, the fish and the caribou, and the 10 Hamlet is happy that these items are being looked after, 11 but what about the people? 12 Peter spoke earlier this afternoon about the 13 training needs, the housing issues, the cost of living 14 in the community, et cetera. There is no need to repeat 15 these items, only to stress our desperate concern for 16 jobs in the community. 17 We are in support of the Meadowbank Gold Mine, but 18 the Hamlet of Baker Lake would like to see 19 socio-economic and infrastructure dealings being 20 directly negotiated with the Hamlet. We need to ensure 21 that our community will benefit from potential projects 22 and activities and gain the most opportunities possible 23 for Baker Lake, our businesses and our community 24 members. 25 Thank you, Mr. Chairperson and Board members, for 26 the opportunity to present our concerns at this time, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00222 1 and I hope you all enjoy your stay in Baker Lake. 2 Matna. 3 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Do you have any 4 comments on the nine points? Thank you. Questions to 5 the Hamlet of Baker Lake? Cumberland Resources? 6 COMMENTS BY CUMBERLAND TO HAMLET OF BAKER LAKE 7 CRAIG GOODINGS: Thank you, Tara. Yeah, 8 question on the road. We understand that KIA and the 9 Hamlets desire to maybe keep the road open after we 10 finish the mine, and that possibly could happen. 11 However, in our environmental assessment, we are only 12 putting forth the road and only doing the assessment of 13 the impacts and the mitigation of those impacts for a 14 15-year road, because after 15 years, we will be gone 15 and there won't be anybody -- we won't be here to 16 maintain that road. 17 So that's sort of how you frame that issue about 18 the road, and how we work together on building that 19 road, that could still be worked out. We are not 20 closing the door on that; however, we are only doing the 21 environmental impact for a 15-year road, that's all we 22 are talking about here. So if it turns out that 23 somebody wants to take it after we leave, they will have 24 to do that for themselves. Okay. I hope that clarifies 25 that. 26 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. KIA, NTI, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00223 1 comments to the Hamlet of Baker? 2 LUIS MANZO: No questions. 3 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Indian and 4 Northern Affairs? 5 CARL McLEAN: No questions, Mr. Chair. 6 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 7 Fisheries and Oceans? 8 DERRICK MOGGY: We have no questions, Mr. 9 Chair. 10 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Natural 11 Resources Canada? 12 ROB JOHNSTONE: No questions, Mr. Chairman. 13 CHAIRPERSON: Acres International? 14 RAMLI HALIM: No questions, Mr. Chairman. 15 CHAIRPERSON: Local residents, any 16 questions to the Hamlet of Baker? NIRB staff? Thank 17 you. Board members, any questions? Lucassie? 18 BOARD MEMBERS QUESTION HAMLET OF BAKER LAKE 19 Q LUCASSIE ARRAGUTAINAQ: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 20 If I understood you correctly, that you are still 21 looking for a real commitment for training and 22 apprenticeship program, the commitment from Cumberland 23 for you? 24 A TARA FESYK: Sorry, can you repeat that, 25 please? 26 Q LUCASSIE ARRAGUTAINAQ: If I understand you DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00224 1 correctly, you are still looking for a real commitment 2 from Cumberland for the training and the apprenticeship 3 program to be in place? 4 A TARA FESYK: Yes. And we feel with 5 opportunities such as the road development, whether the 6 all-weather road or the road that will be going out to 7 the new docking system, there could be training 8 opportunities when creating the roads, that those 9 training opportunities can then be used for out at the 10 mine or within the community. 11 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 12 questions? Thank you for your presentation. 13 Bill? 14 BILL TILLEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 15 And I think we need to file the document that Mr. Halim, 16 the independent consultant to the Board used, and so we 17 will mark that as number 10. 18 EXHIBIT 10: ACRES INTERNATIONAL 19 PRESENTATION 20 BILL TILLEMAN: Mr. Chairman, I think that 21 brings us to the end of the day, and before we go, a 22 couple of things that the staff has, and then I would 23 suggest you ask the other parties if they have any 24 questions that we can deal with. 25 But the first one is we have -- I should have just 26 advised the Board that I think the lawyers for some of DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00225 1 the parties will be bringing a motion tomorrow to 2 discuss the legalities around the all-season road, so we 3 will wait to hear from them and then we will hear from 4 everybody and decide what to do at that point. So I 5 would suggest to you, because I have been talking to 6 counsel, that they would like to do that first thing in 7 the morning. 8 The second thing, Mr. Chairman, is as the staff 9 have been thinking about the very successful technical 10 meeting that we have had over the last week, it seems to 11 me that it would be helpful to the staff if the parties 12 overnight could take home with them a very simple, it is 13 simple to say, homework assignment, and it relates to a 14 couple of issues. 15 The first one is the commitments list which we have 16 now filed. As you know, Mr. Chairman, the proponent has 17 essentially approved, shall I say, 90 percent of what 18 was agreed upon last week, the numbers may be slightly 19 off. But in most of it they have agreed with all of the 20 consultants. And from that then, several other parties 21 have filed a response. 22 It would just be helpful if at least before the end 23 of the week, and for some of the parties it might be by 24 tomorrow, if they can come to the staff and just 25 summarize for us their major concerns over the list that 26 was filed by and agreed to by the proponent. If we DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00226 1 could just get right to the beef of the issue, if I can 2 be simple about it. 3 And the second one is if they can summarize at the 4 macro level what concerns they have over changes to the 5 Draft EIS that should be in the Final EIS. Now, 6 obviously anyone sitting here for the last few hours 7 would understand that we have a whole bunch of things 8 that the company has agreed to do. 9 We have also heard from a lot of technical people 10 that there is a whole bunch of things that should be 11 done, but if they could maybe at the macro level come 12 back and explain to the Board what are some of the big 13 things that should be done. 14 For example, we have heard about the all-season 15 road. We have heard that it won't be decommissioned, 16 and so that's that. Does the community still have a 17 concern about it? Do intervenors still have concerns 18 about it in a big level? That would just be nice to 19 know, and we have heard some of those things, safety and 20 access and so on, limitations to that. That's only one 21 example, but there are other examples. 22 So if they could, they are all very talented 23 technical people, they know what they have written, they 24 know what the nine questions are of the Board. We just 25 need to take back for you, Mr. Chairman, and the Board 26 kind of a broader -- we know what the Draft EIS is, we DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00227 1 now know what these additional commitments are, do the 2 math, subtract one from the other and just tell us the 3 big, easy-to-understand concept level what changes need 4 to be made in the Final EIS, which of course is the 5 decision that the Board will be taking with it at the 6 end of this week. 7 I hope it helps. It helps me, and it hopes it 8 helps you understand how the staff feels at the end of 9 day 1. 10 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any comments? 11 No comments? Go ahead. 12 RESIDENT QUESTIONS CUMBERLAND AND DFO 13 MIKE ALEIK: Hello. I have two 14 something -- Percy, quiet down a bit. Percy over there. 15 One is from DFO, Department of Fisheries there, okay, 16 thank you. 17 I think what you have to have, you know, there is 18 something missing in there, something about dewatering 19 dikes. What you should have just with the Cumberland, 20 how they are going to deal with -- once they remove the 21 water from two other lakes, dikes, you know, if there is 22 any fish, how is the company going to deal with those? 23 Can Cumberland answer that? 24 I think you should have asked that, I think, about 25 dewatering dikes, you know, removing water from other 26 lakes to other lakes or something like that, right? I DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00228 1 think that's what you should have brought in the draft 2 report. I think there is something missing in there. 3 So if there is any fish, how is the company, you 4 know, I think that's -- you should report that. 5 Somebody should report that, not me, I'm just a regular 6 person, so that just comes up now. 7 I am not against the company or anything like that, 8 but how, you know, how are they going to do with the 9 live fish? Maybe one of you have to answer that. 10 CRAIG GOODINGS: Of course, the question, if 11 I can paraphrase, you are wondering what we are going to 12 do with the fish before we take the water out of the 13 lakes? 14 Q MIKE ALEIX: Well, if they are putting 15 up the dike and the diked area has any fish, I just 16 wanted to know as to what's going to happen with the 17 fish, and it seemed this was not addressed by DFO. And 18 that's where I would like some kind of an answer on it. 19 A CRAIG GOODINGS: First of all, we are going 20 to remove the fish before we dewater the lakes. The 21 question is what do we do with the fish once we take 22 them out of the lake. There is two options under 23 consideration. One is we bring all of the fish that are 24 edible back to Baker Lake for food. The other option is 25 we try to save as many as we can and put them over into 26 the adjacent waterways, and the ones that perish we then DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00229 1 bring back to Baker Lake for food. 2 These two options are on the table, and they have 3 not been decided yet. This will be negotiated by KIA. 4 Q MIKE ALEIK: One more. There is a 5 different one, something about socio-economic impact, 6 right? How are you going to deal with human waste when 7 the mine starts going on? Can somebody answer that one? 8 CRAIG GOODINGS: You are asking what we are 9 going to do with the human sewage? Jim, can you give a 10 little quick overview? I can't speak, let him talk. 11 A JIM KOSKI: The sewage will be routed 12 to a treatment facility which will be a rotating 13 biological contractor or a sequential batch reactor. 14 The effluent from that treatment plant will be 15 injected into the tailings pump box, and it will be 16 pumped out with the tailings. At that time it is 17 treated the same as from a septic tank. 18 Q MIKE ALEIX: Okay. One more, third one, 19 last one. Somebody mentioned about 350 people involved 20 within more than 10 years, 20, 18? Somewhere around 21 there, right? The year 2018, somewhere there, okay. 22 My question is, how are you going to deal with all 23 of those people coming into Baker Lake before the mine 24 opens? I think you have to deal with the human, I mean 25 people first. They have to have homes and houses and if 26 they got family, you know, some people might want to DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00230 1 live right here in Baker Lake. I think you have to 2 answer that somehow. I would be pleased if you answered 3 that. 4 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Well, the majority of the 5 workers will live at the camp, they won't live in town, 6 unless you are a local person, in which case you have a 7 house here. So you are not -- don't expect an influx of 8 foreigners moving into Baker Lake, that's not what's 9 going to happen. 10 Q MIKE ALEIX: Anyway, I don't want you to 11 worry about whatever I said here. 12 But the most important thing is something about 13 that Department of Fisheries dewatering dikes, removing 14 water to some other lake, dikes, right? And if there is 15 any fish, I think you are going to have to deal with 16 that soon, you have to put it in your report or whoever, 17 either them or whoever doing that, and I think you have 18 to put it in the report. And you know what I mean? 19 A CRAIG GOODINGS: It is in the report as the 20 options, but we will come to a final option for the 21 Final EIS, no doubt about it. And you have asked really 22 good questions, I appreciate them. 23 MIKE ALEIX: Thank you very much. I 24 support Cumberland when they start opening all that 25 gold, it is like a fisherman, catching a big fish, once 26 you throw in your fishing line, gold. Something like DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00231 1 that. Okay. Thank you. 2 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Is there any 3 other questions? If not, that concludes our evening. I 4 would like to -- Bill? 5 BILL TILLEMAN: Just the timing for 6 tomorrow. 7 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. We will start 8 again at 9 o'clock tomorrow. I would like to close with 9 a closing prayer. 10 PETER PANEAK: (Closing prayer) 11 (HEARING ADJOURNED AT 8:40 P.M., JUNE 6, 2005) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00232 1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPT 2 I, TARA LUTZ, hereby certify that the 3 foregoing pages are a true and faithful transcript 4 of the proceedings taken down by me in shorthand and 5 transcribed from my shorthand notes to the best of my 6 skill and ability. 7 Dated at the City of Edmonton, Province of 8 Alberta, this 12th day of June, A.D. 2005. 9 10 11 12 Tara Lutz 13 Court Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00233 1 INDEX OF EXHIBITS 2 EXHIBIT 1: INTRODUCTORY PRESENTATION BY 162:25 3 CUMBERLAND RESOURCES 4 EXHIBIT 2: PERMAFROST BASELINE STUDIES 163:1 5 PRESENTATION BY CUMBERLAND RESOURCES 6 EXHIBIT 3: GEOCHEMISTRY STUDY 163:3 7 PRESENTATION BY CUMBERLAND RESOURCES 8 EXHIBIT 4: FISHERIES AND AQUATIC STUDIES 163:5 9 PRESENTATION BY CUMBERLAND RESOURCES 10 EXHIBIT 5: TERRESTRIAL SURVEYS 163:8 11 PRESENTATION BY CUMBERLAND RESOURCES 12 EXHIBIT 6: ELECTRONIC VERSIONS OF ALL 163:10 13 CUMBERLAND RESOURCES PRESENTATION AT THE 14 TECHNICAL MEETING AND PREHEARING 15 CONFERENCE 16 EXHIBIT 7: COMMENTS TO THE LIST OF 168:25 17 COMMITMENTS BY CUMBERLAND RESOURCES, 18 INCLUDING CUMBERLAND, KIVALLIQ INUIT 19 ASSOCIATION, DEPARTMENT OF FISHERIES AND 20 OCEANS, ENVIRONMENT CANADA, INAC AND 21 ACRES INTERNATIONAL 22 EXHIBIT 8: NTI AND KIA PRESENTATION 180:23 23 EXHIBIT 9: ELECTRONIC COPY AND HARD COPY 204:7 24 OF DFO PRESENTATION 25 EXHIBIT 10: ACRES INTERNATIONAL 224:18 26 PRESENTATION DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590