00334 NUNAVUT IMPACT REVIEW BOARD PREHEARING CONFERENCE FOR THE MEADOWBANK GOLD PROJECT JUNE 8, 2005 VOLUME 3 LOCATION: CHESTERFIELD INLET SCHOOL CHESTERFIELD INLET, NUNAVUT PANEL: Albert Ehaloak Chairperson Peter Paneak Pauloosie Paniloo Lucassie Arragutainaq Mary Avalak Peter Akkikungnaq BOARD STAFF: Bill Tilleman, Q.C. Legal Counsel Stephanie Briscoe Executive Director Stephen Lines Technical Advisor Karlette Tunaley Technical Advisor Carolanne Inglis Hearing Coordinator Gladys Joudrey Manager of Environmental Administration Mary Hunt Interpreter/Translator DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00335 Percy Tutannaq Interpreter/Translator Joe Otokiak Interpreter/Translator John Komak Interpreter/Translator Pat Braden Sound Technician Court Reporter: Tara Lutz DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00336 INDEX PRESENTATION BY CUMBERLAND RESOURCES 348:16 PRESENTATION ON PERMAFROST AND GROUNDWATER 359:22 RESIDENTS QUESTION PROPONENT ON PERMAFROST & GROUNDWATER 367:3 PRESENTATION ON WATER AND GEOCHEMISTRY 380:24 NRCAN QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON GEOCHEMISTRY 387:25 LOCAL RESIDENTS QUESTION PROPONENT ON GEOCHEMISTRY 388:20 RESIDENTS QUESTION PROPONENT ON FISHERIES & AQUATICS 403:6 PRESENTATION BY PROPONENT ON WILDLIFE & TERRESTRIAL 411:8 RESIDENTS QUESTION PROPONENT ON WILDLIFE & TERRESTRIAL 416:25 PRESENTATION BY NTI AND KIA 419:21 CUMBERLAND QUESTIONS KIA & NTI 427:20 LOCAL RESIDENTS QUESTION KIA AND NTI 430:9 BOARD MEMBERS QUESTION KIA AND NTI 435:5 GENERAL COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS 436:24 BOARD MEMBERS ASK GENERAL QUESTIONS 446:3 CUMBERLAND COMMENTS ON INAC PRESENTATION460:20 LOCAL RESIDENTS MAKE GENERAL QUESTIONS 461:26 CLOSING COMMENTS BY PROPONENT 466:2 DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00337 1 (Prehearing meeting commenced at 10:05 a.m.) 2 CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Welcome everybody. 3 I would like to start with an opening prayer. Peter? 4 PETER PANEAK: (Opening prayer) 5 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Peter. 6 Hello and welcome to the prehearing conference for 7 the Meadowbank Gold Project. 8 My name is Albert Ehaloak, and I am the Acting 9 Chair of the Nunavut Impact Review Board. I have been 10 on the Board for two and a half years. 11 We are the Nunavut Impact Review Board, and we are 12 conducting a prehearing conference to address the nine 13 issues that we sent to the proponent and all the parties 14 on May 5th, 2005. I will refer to these issues in a 15 moment. 16 We should let you know that we are having a draw 17 for the door prize at the end of the meeting, and I will 18 announce the winners sometime before we leave the 19 building. 20 For a belief description of the application, the 21 Meadowbank Gold Project being proposed by Cumberland 22 Resources Limited is for an open-pit gold mine located 23 on Inuit-owned lands approximately 70 kilometres north 24 of the Hamlet of Baker Lake. 25 According to the proponent, Meadowbank is planning 26 to have a 12 to 14-year project life. The project will DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00338 1 have a two-year construction period, followed by eight 2 to ten years of mine operation and a two-year 3 postclosure period. 4 The project life and schedule has changed due to 5 the feasibility study, and the three changes from the 6 feasibility are: 36 percent increase in production, 7 closed-loop production, winter road to all-weather 8 access road; therefore, changes to the project schedule 9 are anticipated. The proponent will tell us more about 10 these changes in a few minutes. 11 In attendance with us today are the following Board 12 members -- please note that Elizabeth Copeland has 13 declared conflict in participating in these hearings as 14 she is the mayor of Arviat. 15 We have Pauloosie Paniloo. 16 PAULOOSIE PANILOO: My name is Pauloosie 17 Paniloo from Clyde River. I have been a member of the 18 Nunavut Impact Review Board since 1999 up to today. 19 CHAIRPERSON: Peter Paneak? 20 PETER PANEAK: My name is Peter Paneak 21 from Clyde River as well. I'm a member of the Nunavut 22 Impact Review Board the last four years. 23 CHAIRPERSON: Lucassie Arragutainaq? 24 LUCASSIE ARRAGUTAINAQ: My name is Lucassie 25 Arragutainaq. It has been over a year since I have 26 become a member of the Nunavut Impact Review Board. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00339 1 CHAIRPERSON: Mary Avalak? 2 MARY AVALAK: I am Mary Avalak. I am 3 from Cambridge Bay. I'm a member of the Nunavut Impact 4 Review Board for the last two years. 5 CHAIRPERSON: And Peter Akkikungnaq? 6 PETER AKKIKUNGNAQ: My name is Peter 7 Akkikungnaq, and I have been a Board member since 1999. 8 In the last four years. It has been 40 years since I 9 was last here, since I last saw Chesterfield. 10 CHAIRPERSON: The NIRB staff members, 11 Stephanie Briscoe, Executive Director; Karlette Tunaley, 12 Technical Advisor; Stephen Lines, Technical Advisor; 13 Carolanne Inglis, Hearing Coordinator; Bill Tilleman, 14 Legal Advisor; Gladys Joudrey, Manager of Environmental 15 Administration, is in the back; Mary Hunt, interpreter; 16 Percy Tutannaq, interpreter; Joe Otokiak, interpreter; 17 John Komak, interpreter; Tara Lutz, stenographer; Pat 18 Braden, our sound technician. 19 Official transcripts of the prehearing will be 20 prepared and placed on NIRB's public registry and posted 21 on the FTP site. 22 The Nunavut Land Claim states that NIRB shall take 23 all necessary steps by way of notice, release of 24 information, scheduling and location of hearings to 25 provide and promote public awareness of and 26 participation at hearings. We have tried to do that in DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00340 1 the Meadowbank case by notifying all of you by writing 2 and by public advertisement of this prehearing meeting. 3 For your information, we have a copy of all 4 correspondence between NIRB and the proponent and the 5 parties in what we call a public registry. This 6 information is available at the back table, and also 7 available in our NIRB office in Cambridge Bay by 8 request. Please see Gladys Joudrey at the back. 9 We are here to conduct this meeting under the 10 authority of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement Article 11 12 Part 5. 12 Briefly, NIRB's work is to assess and evaluate 13 impacts. Its primary objectives are to protect and 14 promote the existing and future well-being of the 15 residents and the communities of the Nunavut Settlement 16 Area and to protect the ecosystem's integrity of the 17 Nunavut Settlement Area. 18 The purpose of this prehearing meeting is to 19 clarify issues before the final hearing. 20 Now, the prehearing history. On September 23rd, 21 2003, the Board advised the Minister Robert Nault that 22 the Meadowbank Gold Project required review under either 23 Part 5 or Part 6 of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement. 24 In reply on December 3rd, 2003, the Honourable 25 Minister Nault replied to us, and the Ministers of 26 Fisheries and Oceans and Natural Resources Canada agreed DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00341 1 to refer the project to NIRB for a Part 5 review of the 2 Meadowbank Gold Project. 3 Since then, NIRB issued EIS guidelines, and a draft 4 EIS was received by NIRB on January 5th, 2005. More 5 recently, on April 8th, 2005, NIRB wrote to the 6 distribution list and set the prehearing conference for 7 this week, June 6th to 9th. We will, thus, be visiting 8 the communities of Baker Lake, Chesterfield Inlet and 9 Rankin Inlet. 10 Matters that NIRB wants the distribution list to 11 pay a special attention to are: Please share all written 12 submissions with other parties, this is not the 13 responsibility of NIRB. If NIRB makes information 14 requests of parties and, in particular, the proponent, 15 it will do so after this prehearing conference. Make 16 sure you provide all information that you can. 17 The nine issues to be addressed today. First, let 18 me stress that we are not here today to approve the 19 project, this is not the final hearing. This is only 20 the prehearing or advanced meeting to answer some 21 procedural questions, so the only reason why we are here 22 today is to address the following nine issues: The 23 schedule for the prehearing conference; exchange of 24 information; intervenor identification and registration; 25 the list of issues to be dealt with in the final public 26 hearing and clear statements of issues; technical DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00342 1 reports and other documents needed for the final public 2 hearing; technical schedules to be followed by the 3 parties for completion of reports prior to the final 4 public hearing; the schedule, times and places of the 5 final public hearing; special procedure, if any, to be 6 followed at the final public hearing; any motions that 7 may be needed before the Final EIS is filed or the final 8 public hearing commences; any other matters that may aid 9 in simplification of the hearing. Example, the 10 segregation of the hearing into different segments, 11 technical hearing versus non-technical community 12 meetings. 13 Now, we will do a roll call for the proponent and 14 the citizens to introduce themselves and witnesses, if 15 any. For now we have Cumberland Resources Limited? 16 TOM MANNIK: I am Tom Mannik. I have 17 been working on the environmental issues since 1997. 18 I am a coordinator for environmental issues and for 19 those who are going to work on the project, and I'm also 20 one of the managers for the environmental issue 21 concerns. 22 JACOB IKINLIK: I am Jacob Ikinlik from 23 Baker Lake. I also work with environmental issues, 24 mainly with wildlife issues, and I am also a Hamlet 25 councillor in Baker Lake. 26 CRAIG GOODINGS: Hello, my name is Craig DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00343 1 Goodings. I'm with Cumberland Resources. I'm the 2 environmental coordinator for the project. I am very 3 happy to be in Chesterfield Inlet. 4 JOHN DONIHEE: My name is John Donihee, 5 I'm counsel for Cumberland Resources for this matter. 6 CAMERON CLAYTON: My name is Cameron Clayton. 7 I'm an associate and a senior geological engineer with 8 Golder Associates. I have been involved with the 9 project since 1995. I have 12 years' experience in 10 mining and rock mechanics related design. And I have 11 been Golder's team leader for the project for the 12 geotechnical and geoenvironmental services since 1995. 13 VALERIE BERTRAND: Hello, my name is Valerie 14 Bertrand. I'm a geochemist with Golder Associates 15 working for Cumberland. I have been working on the 16 project since 2000 looking at rock chemistry, water 17 quality issues. 18 RAJ ANAND: My name is Raj Anand. I am 19 with Cumberland Resources as senior engineer working on 20 engineering and logistics aspect of the project. 21 BRAD THIELE: I am Brad Thiele. I'm the 22 vice-president Meadowbank development. I have been on 23 this project since July of 2001. I'm a mining engineer. 24 This is my 40th year in mine operations, design and 25 hopefully soon construction again. 26 MARTIN GEBAUER: Good morning, my name is DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00344 1 Martin Gebauer with Gebauer & Associates. I am on this 2 project now my fourth year, and I look at the wildlife 3 and plant issues related to the mine. 4 JOHN CUNNING: Good morning. My name is 5 John Cunning. I am a geotechnical engineer with Golder 6 Associates providing consulting services to Cumberland. 7 RANDY BAKER: My name is Randy Baker, I'm 8 the fish guy, and I have been working on these project 9 lakes since 1997, so this is year nine for me. 10 JIM KOSKI: Good morning. I am Jim 11 Koski, I am the construction manager for Cumberland 12 Resources. Brad has got one year up on me, I am 39 13 years in the construction industry. 14 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Nunavut 15 Tunngavik Incorporated? 16 JEANNIE EHALOAK: Hi, my name is Jeannie 17 Ehaloak, Environmental Coordinated Nunavut Tunngavik 18 Incorporated based in Cambridge Bay. 19 GEORGE HAKONGAK: Hi, George Hakongak, senior 20 advisor, environment water and marine management, 21 Department of Lands and Resources, Nunavut Tunngavik 22 Incorporated in Cambridge Bay. 23 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Kivalliq Inuit 24 Association? 25 LUIS MANZO: Mr. Chairman, my name is 26 Luis Manzo, director of Department of Lands and Services DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00345 1 for Kivalliq Inuit Association. Thank you. 2 JOE KALUDJAK: Good morning, please be 3 welcome. My name is Joe Kaludjak of KIA. I am 4 vice-president of KIA. 5 DAVID NINGEONGAN: My name is David Ningeongan 6 of KIA, I almost also in the executive field. 7 BERNIE PUTULIK: My name is Bernie Putulik. 8 I'm also a member of the KIA, and I live here. Please 9 feel welcome. 10 RALPH KOWNAK: Ralph Kownak of KIA. I 11 started in January, I'm a DAO officer. 12 STEVE HARTMAN: Good morning. I am Steve 13 Hartman of Kivalliq Inuit Association, environmental 14 officer in the lands department. 15 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 16 Environment, Government of Nunavut? Department of 17 Indian and Northern Affairs? 18 CARL McLEAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. My 19 name is Carl McLean, Acting Director of Operations, 20 regularly manager of land administration with Indian and 21 Northern Affairs now for five years in Iqaluit, in the 22 land administration business for 25 years in Labrador, 23 Northwest Territories and Nunavut. 24 LUKE EASOLUK: Good morning. My name is 25 Luke Easoluk (phonetic), I'm with the Government of 26 Nunavut, the Department of Community and Government DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00346 1 Services in Rankin Inlet. 2 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 3 MIKE HINE: Good morning. I'm Mike 4 Hine with Indian and Northern Affairs. I'm the resource 5 development advisor in the economic development 6 department. 7 ROBYN ABERNETHY-GILLIS: Good morning. I am Robyn 8 Abernethy-Gillis. I work as an environmental scientist 9 for Indian and Northern Affairs Canada in Iqaluit, 10 Nunavut. 11 NORM CAVANAGH: Good morning, Norm Cavanagh 12 with Justice Canada providing advisory services to 13 DIAND. 14 CHARLES DROUIN: Morning. Charles Drouin, 15 communications officer for INAC. 16 MARK WATSON: Mark Watson, senior 17 geotechnical engineer for EBA Engineering and consultant 18 to INAC. 19 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 20 Fisheries and Oceans? 21 DERRICK MOGGY: Good morning. I'm Derrick 22 Moggy with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. I'm 23 a habitat management biologist working out of Iqaluit. 24 CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Natural 25 Resources Canada? 26 ROB JOHNSTONE: Good morning, I am Rob DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00347 1 Johnstone. I'm deputy director of environmental 2 assessment and regulatory affairs with the minerals and 3 metals sector. I'm also representing our expert team in 4 the Geological Survey of Canada and mineral technology 5 branch of Canmet. 6 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Hamlet of 7 Chesterfield Inlet? 8 TITI KADLUK: Please feel welcome. Thank 9 you for coming to our community, Chesterfield Inlet, to 10 hold your meetings here. 11 I'm a member of the Hamlet council. There is no 12 other board members here. Please feel welcome, and I am 13 here to listen to what you have to say, any kind of 14 information related to environmental-related issues. 15 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Local 16 residents? Local residents? 17 ELI KIMMALIAJUK: I live here. My name is 18 Eli Kimmaliajuk, and I see many people here right before 19 me. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Anybody else 21 going to go up for local residents? 22 Procedure for this prehearing conference will be 23 different from the actual hearing. 24 LEO MIMIALIK: My name is Leo Mimialik. 25 I'm a vice-chair of the wildlife board. I was asked to 26 represent my community and the person representing -- DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00348 1 I'm acting in her position, she is gone to the hospital, 2 president of the HTO. The person I am representing is 3 not here for health reasons. 4 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other local 5 residents? 6 The procedure for this prehearing conference will 7 be different from an actual hearing. For today, NIRB 8 would like the parties, as listed above, to give us a 9 brief response to the nine issues I listed. 10 Please keep your comments to 30 minutes or less, 11 though we will give more time to the proponent. 12 Also, please state your name before your 13 presentation and also the questions arising from them 14 for our stenographer, Tara Lutz. 15 And I will turn it over to proponent. 16 PRESENTATION BY CUMBERLAND RESOURCES 17 CRAIG GOODINGS: Good morning. As I 18 mentioned, my name is Craig Goodings, and I will give 19 you a brief overview of the project, and then I will be 20 following up with my specialists. They will go through 21 some of the engineering issues, some of the wildlife 22 issues and some of the fisheries issues. 23 To start with, I would like to introduce a little 24 bit about Cumberland Resources. We are a public 25 company, that means we are listed on the Toronto Stock 26 Exchange. We have 100 percent ownership of the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00349 1 Meadowbank project, and we also have ownership of the 2 Meliadine West project. 3 Cumberland is well financed, 37 million in the bank 4 as of January 1, 2005. And we are focussed on 5 developing the Meadowbank Gold Project. 6 This figure shows where the Meadowbank project is 7 in relation to Baker Lake. I don't know for those of 8 you who don't know, Baker Lake is here, and the 9 Meadowbank project is about 70 kilometres north of Baker 10 Lake. 11 We have been working on the Meadowbank project 12 since 1995. We initially discovered 200,000 ounces of 13 gold. Cumberland Resources, over the period of about 14 ten years, has spent $39 million on the project, and it 15 has been a great success. As you can see, we went from 16 a small amount of gold up to 3.8 million ounces of gold. 17 With this level of gold, it makes it economical to 18 develop the gold mine. 19 Meadowbank project is Canada's largest pure gold 20 open-pit reserve. It is all contained underneath this 21 KIA lands. Mineral title is held by the federal 22 government and NTI. 23 The project, as I mentioned, is located about 70 24 kilometres north of Baker Lake. It will be an open-pit 25 mine, and I will show you some figures later on. We are 26 in the permitting process. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00350 1 We expect to take two years to build the mine. It 2 will have a life of 8.3 years, produce 315 ounces of 3 gold a year and employ 350 people during operations. 4 The cost to build the mine is $300 million Canadian. 5 The benefits to Nunavut, during construction, we 6 expect to generate up to 75 local jobs, that's local in 7 the Nunavut sense. There will be other jobs created as 8 well to support the building of the mine, that will be 9 in finance, transportation, warehousing. 10 Generally in a construction like this, for every 11 one direct job at the mine, two jobs are created in 12 Nunavut elsewhere. 13 Once the mine is up and running, as I mentioned, it 14 will employ about 70 full-time people, local people, 15 over an 8.3 year life. It will generate 30 million in 16 wages, which will generate 200 million in expenditures 17 over 8.3 years. These are dollars that will stay in 18 Nunavut. The average wage at the mine will be 50,000 a 19 year. 20 In addition to local employment, there will be 21 spin-off employment through contractors and suppliers. 22 These will be good jobs, positive and long term. 23 I would just like to take you out to the mine 24 itself now. I hope you can see that. It is not very -- 25 it is kind of dark. Anyway, you can see here the red 26 represents where the gold is. And you can see that part DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00351 1 of the gold is on the islands and the peninsula, and 2 part of it is under the water. That means to get the 3 gold, we will have to construct dikes to drain the lake 4 and access the gold, and I will show you how that will 5 work in the next series of slides. 6 Our first year of operation will be all on the 7 land. This will give us our building materials for our 8 various infrastructure and generate some cash flow. 9 Subsequent, however, we need to enter the water, and 10 this will be done through dikes. These are water-tight 11 dikes. There is different types of dikes, but this is a 12 general picture. Basically it keeps the water out over 13 here so the workers can work in a pit, a dry pit over 14 here. 15 These are very similar to the dikes that are built 16 at the Diavik mine, except our dikes will be much 17 shallower than Diavik's. But it is an indication that 18 what we are proposing to do has been done elsewhere in 19 the Arctic, successfully done elsewhere. 20 So once we get the dikes in place, we will -- the 21 fish will all be captured and transplanted and moved to 22 Baker Lake, some of them, that is still to be decided. 23 And then once they are out, the water will be drained. 24 This will allow us to get the gold that's under the 25 lakes. You can see here in this picture. 26 We also have gold on the other islands out here, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00352 1 which requires us to build dikes out here. The same 2 thing will happen, we will dike it, catch the fish and 3 then drain it and then mine it. 4 This is what the mine will look like at close to 5 closure for the southern part. On closure, once the 6 water quality is -- the dikes will be flooded, the pits 7 will be flooded. And once the water quality is 8 suitable, it will be released to the open environment. 9 So this here is an image you see before you that 10 represents what the property will look like on closure. 11 All the buildings will be gone, essentially all 12 that will be left will be where we had to put gravel 13 down. The waste dump and the tailings pond, which is 14 now dry land, that was lake, will now be dry land. 15 We also have a deposit to the north of us seven 16 kilometres. There will be a haul road, you will see 17 that in a minute. This deposit also extends from the 18 land to the water, which means we have to drain this 19 lake to get the gold out, that will be done with dikes 20 as well. Here you can see the lake, the water has been 21 removed, the gold has been mined, and we have a waste 22 pile here. And then this road will take the ore to the 23 mill further to the south, seven kilometres south. 24 On closure, the same thing will happen. The 25 buildings will be removed, the pits will be flooded, and 26 once a suitable water quality has been reached, it will DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00353 1 be released to the open environment. 2 The mill process, there is a little truck up here, 3 got to watch that, there it goes. Essentially large 4 rock is brought in from the pits, are taken into the 5 mill, and the way you get the gold out is you crush it 6 to a powder and take it through a series of processes, 7 one of which is cyanide, which dissolves the gold out is 8 one stage. And the cyanide, then, is destroyed before 9 being released to the tailings pond. 10 This is what the gold bar will look like that we 11 produce at the mine. One of these will be made every 12 day. So this gold bar is worth half a million dollars, 13 there will be one of these made every day and flown out 14 to the Ottawa Mint. 15 A little bit about the infrastructure to get to the 16 mine. We will be using barges, and I have some 17 information about that. There will be about five barges 18 annually that will go up the inlet to supply our fuel 19 and our dry good needs. That will be then transferred 20 to a proposed all-weather road that will be taken into 21 camp. 22 Here is a picture of a normal barge pulling into 23 Baker Lake. This will be very similar to our set-up. 24 And I know Chesterfield is very interested in the 25 barging, so I have more text on that, a little bit too 26 much, perhaps. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00354 1 Essentially we will be taking three to five trips a 2 year between Chesterfield Inlet and Baker Lake. We will 3 be transferring 27,000 tonnes of dry freight and 32,000 4 tonnes of fuel. There is two options, fuel tankers will 5 come from Chesterfield transfer station and then put on 6 a barge and then put into Baker, and the dry cargo will 7 be handled similarly. There will also be freight 8 arriving from Churchill, but it will be a barge set-up. 9 We are in a feasibility stage, so we haven't 10 contracted our marine operator yet. However, we have 11 contacted those who can do it. But we will assure you 12 that only experienced marine operators will be 13 contracted, and all vessels will comply with the 14 Canadian Shipping Act. 15 A little bit about the road. Originally we did 16 propose a winter road, but the economics have shown that 17 we need to go for an all-weather road. The reason for 18 that is we need to get the freight up to camp, as 19 opposed to leaving it in Baker until the wintertime. 20 This blue line is the winter road, and this red 21 line is an overland route that we are proposing to 22 build. You will see, the road will handle semis like 23 you see in this picture here, this is from the Lupin ice 24 road. 25 We propose to build five bridges, and there are 26 numerous culvert crossings. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00355 1 The road will be 102 kilometres long. As I 2 mentioned, there will be five bridges, and it will cost 3 approximately $20 million to build. 4 The reason for the road, it will reduce our costs 5 in Baker Lake for infrastructure, our capital costs of 6 the fleet, it will allow us to build a smaller airstrip 7 at the camp. And essentially the road has become a key 8 component to the success of this project. Without the 9 road, there is no project. 10 The geologists have been busy finding the gold, but 11 the environmental scientists have been just as busy 12 studying the environment. We have been working since 13 1996, and every year we basically study the wildlife, 14 the water, the air, the vegetation. We have -- 15 unfortunately we didn't bring Hattie Mannik with us 16 today, but she is our traditional knowledge expert. We 17 have her husband Tom. 18 Socio-economic, and of course, the big part of all 19 of these mines in the Arctic anywhere is public 20 consultation. We have been consulting with the public 21 since 1996. 22 All the work that the environmental scientists have 23 done have been put into our Draft Environmental Impact 24 Statement, which has been submitted to the NIRB Board, 25 and this is the document that's being reviewed before 26 you. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00356 1 There are copies here at the Hamlet office and 2 other places, I think the HTO has a copy as well. 3 Essentially, the document is divided into three 4 main areas, the baseline reports which tell us what the 5 environment is like now, air, fish, water. Then we take 6 the baseline reports, the knowledge we have about the 7 current existing environment, we take the mine plan, and 8 we lay the mine plan on top the environment, and that 9 helps us determine where we have issues, where we have 10 impacts we need to mitigate. These impacts are analyzed 11 and methods are designed to mitigate them, to lessen 12 them and to eliminate them. 13 To follow this up, we have monitoring plans, 14 management plans, and, of course, most importantly, the 15 monitoring plans. The monitoring plans will allow us to 16 verify whether our predictions are correct, whether it 17 is our water quality predictions or the effect on the 18 caribou or the effect on the air. A very important part 19 of environmental assessment are your monitoring plans. 20 It allows you to fix something if your estimates are 21 wrong. 22 Just a little bit about the baseline studies. We 23 used a Debra Webster, she is a local from Baker Lake who 24 now lives in Yellowknife. She did a great job for us 25 for the first many years in archaeology, and 26 unfortunately she is not with us. We have another DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00357 1 archeologist now. However, she did a good job. She was 2 able to locate all the archeology sites of interest, and 3 we were able to design our mine plan to eliminate having 4 any impact on archeology sites. 5 Similar to the archeology, we studied traditional 6 knowledge. I mentioned this was done by Hattie Mannik 7 from Baker. And this map, which is hard to see, it 8 shows sites of birthing islands, camping areas, tent 9 rings, fishing areas, et cetera. Similar to archeology 10 data, it allowed us to design the mine to have no impact 11 on any graves and other important sites. 12 As I mentioned to you, mining, the benefits for 13 mining for this region will come from employment and 14 other opportunities. When you study -- it is also 15 important for us to study the social environment to 16 determine just -- similarly, we do an assessment on what 17 the impacts will be on caribou, we want to understand 18 what the impacts will be on the people that live in 19 Nunavut. 20 The areas we looked at were employment, traditional 21 ways of life, individual and community well-being, 22 current infrastructure and social services, heritage 23 resources, archeology, and also employment at a 24 territorial level. The area we studied was Baker Lake 25 specifically and Nunavut generally. We did this through 26 existing literature and consultation. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00358 1 The results of our impact assessment, well, there 2 are definitely going to be employment and business 3 benefits. There are positive and negative effects in 4 moving to a wage economy, but overall the effects are 5 indicated to be positive both at an individual and a 6 community level. Of course, when people have more money 7 and more things to do, there will be a need for more 8 policing. Not because there is going to be more 9 trouble, just because there is going to be more activity 10 on the land. 11 How do mitigate this? Well, you mitigate this by 12 making sure there is business and employment 13 opportunities, that means preferential hiring, including 14 contracting. You offer training programs. In the 15 workplace, you make sure there a code of conduct, and 16 you offer cross-cultural training, that means you 17 educate the southern workers how to behave in the North. 18 You also supply support to individuals and the community 19 at whole. 20 One of the other issues of mitigation is on 21 closure. When we are finished the mine, of course, all 22 of those jobs will be ended. The hope there, though, 23 however is for the many years we have been in the 24 community, that there will be many people who have 25 stayed in school and picked up training and programs. 26 So when we leave, we hope to leave behind an educated DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00359 1 workforce that is trained. 2 Similar to the monitoring of our wildlife, we need 3 to be able to monitor what's going on in social, so we 4 will monitor the number of jobs we are giving, we will 5 monitor our contractors. We will also make sure that 6 the training and educational programs are working, and 7 finally we will have an adaptive management plan. 8 All the mitigation and benefit enhancement and 9 monitoring will be compiled into a document called the 10 Inuit Impact Benefit Agreement, and this is going to be 11 developed in partnership with the KIA, and that's the 12 end of my bit. 13 Do you want me to take questions or go to the next? 14 CHAIRPERSON: We will move on to your 15 next presenter. Thank you for the overview of the 16 project. 17 CRAIG GOODINGS: Thank you. So we are going 18 to have Cam Clayton come up. Cam is an engineer. He 19 has been up here for a long time. He will explain a 20 little bit about some of the issues of permafrost and 21 groundwater. 22 PRESENTATION ON PERMAFROST AND GROUNDWATER 23 CAMERON CLAYTON: Thanks, Craig. Mr. 24 Chairman, members of the Board, respected guests and 25 attendees. I want to thank you for the opportunity to 26 allow me to address you today. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00360 1 As I mentioned in my preamble, I'm a senior 2 geological engineer with Golder Associates, and I have 3 been the team leader for the geotechnical and 4 geoenvironmental services for the Meadowbank project 5 since 1995. 6 I am here today to briefly describe some of the 7 geoenvironmental baseline studies that have been carried 8 out for the project to investigate permafrost and also 9 to investigate groundwater flow conditions in the 10 project area. This has been done as part of the 11 baseline data collection for the project environmental 12 impact statement. 13 Many of the technical details have been discussed 14 previously and they are not repeated here. Those were 15 discussed during the two-day technical session in Baker 16 Lake, and also in the past two-day prehearing conference 17 at Baker Lake. 18 Golder was initially requested by Cumberland in 19 1995 to carry out a preliminary engineering assessment 20 for the Meadowbank project. As a consequence of this 21 preliminary assessment, recommendations were made to 22 Cumberland which included the implementation of a 23 permafrost and hydrogeological baseline monitoring 24 program. 25 Cumberland responded by initiating these studies in 26 1996 with the installation of two temperature monitoring DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00361 1 cables or thermistors at the site to measure ground 2 temperatures to characterize the permafrost conditions. 3 This slide here shows the locations of the 4 thermistor cables or temperature cables that were 5 installed at the site. To date, there has been 6 installed 22 cables to measure ground temperature 7 conditions. 8 As I said, we have been measuring ground 9 temperatures at the site for almost ten years now, and 10 we have built a substantial database of ground 11 temperature data. 12 The cables have been installed to depths of up to 13 200 metres, and the data that has been collected has 14 been used to establish the baseline permafrost 15 conditions at the site, including the thaw depth during 16 summer, the geothermal gradient or the rate at which the 17 ground warms with depth, and also estimates of 18 permafrost thickness. 19 The site-specific data that has been collected from 20 these thermistors have been used in subsequent thermal 21 analyses for the proposed waste management options at 22 the site. 23 The data have also been used in thermal analyses 24 related to the predictions of talik development in areas 25 beneath lakes at the site, and taliks are areas of 26 thawed ground which exists beneath lakes and moving DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00362 1 water, generally associated with deeper lakes. 2 In the regional context, the Meadowbank project 3 site is located in the low Arctic ecozone, which is 4 described as a very cold and very dry climate. 5 A map showing the permafrost of Canada is shown on 6 this slide, and the location of the Meadowbank project 7 is shown on this plan in this area here. 8 The project is currently located in a zone of 9 continuous permafrost, and it exhibits low ground ice 10 content, so it is essentially dry permafrost. 11 Due to the climate and the environment of the 12 project location, engineering design must, must consider 13 appropriate design methods used for cold regions. It is 14 a matter of fact that many aspects of warm climate 15 engineering design are simply not practically 16 implemental at this site. As consequent, northern 17 engineering design methods need to be adopted. 18 However, in developing the feasibility engineering 19 designs and the designs to be considered in the Draft 20 EIS or Environmental Impact Statement for the project, a 21 precautionary principle has been applied to evaluate the 22 response of the project design to climate change or to 23 potential warming trends. 24 As an example, this slide shows the permafrost map 25 of Canada as it exists now. 26 One moment please. We are experiencing technical DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00363 1 difficulties, here. 2 CHAIRPERSON: Shall we take a five-minute 3 break? We will take five minutes. 4 (BRIEF RECESS) 5 CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Can we please get 6 started? Carry on. 7 CAMERON CLAYTON: Mr. Chairman, members of 8 the Board, I would like to apologize for that technical 9 delay. I have since been given instruction on how to 10 use the laser pointer properly. 11 What I was trying to indicate with this slide, this 12 slide represents studies on climate change that have 13 been carried out by other scientists, and what it shows 14 is the location of the Meadowbank project. I am going 15 to use this now, and it shows the existing conditions 16 for permafrost in Canada. 17 This boundary here is the boundary for continuous 18 permafrost that currently exists in Northern Canada. 19 The studies by others have considered climate change for 20 up to 100 years, and they have investigated the impact 21 or the effect of that climate change on the boundary for 22 the continuous permafrost. And what the slide shows is 23 that the boundary for continuous permafrost migrates 24 northwards, as shown by these arrows, but even after 25 applying climate change to the model, the Meadowbank 26 project is still located well within the zone of DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00364 1 continuous permafrost. 2 Hence, it is prudent to provide cold region's 3 engineering design for the related aspects of the 4 project. A key aspect of the baseline design studies 5 for the project has been the characterization of the 6 deep groundwater flow. 7 The results of the site-specific temperature 8 monitoring data indicate that the site is underlain by 9 permafrost up to depths of about 530 metres away from 10 lakes, and that the results also indicate that taliks, 11 exist beneath the lakes. And some of the taliks beneath 12 some of the larger lakes extend through the permafrost 13 into the deep groundwater. Therefore, the baseline 14 characterization of groundwater flow was essential to 15 the project. 16 To characterize the groundwater flow regime, 17 hydraulic conductivity testing was carried out in many 18 geotechnical boreholes that were drilled at the 19 Meadowbank project. 20 This slide here shows the number of geotechnical 21 boreholes from which hydraulic conductivity testing or 22 measurements of groundwater flow within the bedrock were 23 taken. 24 The results of the hydraulic conductivity testing 25 at the Meadowbank project show that the rock has low 26 permeability. In other words, water moves extremely DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00365 1 slowly through the rock. 2 The results of the baseline data collection have 3 been used to develop a three-dimensional model of the 4 regional groundwater flow system at the project area. 5 On this slide here, we can see schematically where the 6 open pits are located, where the dikes are located, and 7 the model parameters that were used to develop the 8 three-dimensional flow model. 9 The results of the modelling indicated that the 10 deep groundwater flow is affected by the water levels in 11 the lakes that have through taliks or taliks extending 12 to the deep groundwater flow beneath them. And water 13 flows from the higher lakes into the lower lakes that 14 are large enough to support these through-going taliks. 15 The model has also been used to predict water 16 inflows into the open pits for engineering design 17 purposes. 18 Based on the site-specific baseline data on 19 permafrost and on groundwater flow, this schematic cross 20 section shows -- illustrates the current understanding 21 of the baseline permafrost in groundwater flow 22 conditions at the site. 23 This is purely for illustrative purposes, and 24 the magnitude -- or at least the size of these arrows 25 are not indicative of flow or rate of flow. And, in 26 fact, it would take water deposited in this area here on DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00366 1 the order of thousands of years to migrate and to be 2 detected in this area here. So what this slide slows, 3 and, again, this is based on actual baseline data 4 collected at the site, this shows schematically the 5 depth of the permafrost on the order of 530 metres, 470 6 to 530 metres away from the influence of lakes. 7 It shows smaller lakes do not have enough energy to 8 support a through talik, so this is an isolated talik, 9 there is no flow out of this talik, and this slide also 10 shows schematically the larger lakes which have the 11 through taliks that extend to the deep groundwater flow 12 regime. 13 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 14 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your 15 presentation. Any questions from KIA, NTI? 16 LUIS MANZO: No questions, Mr. Chairman. 17 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Indian and 18 Northern Affairs Canada? 19 CARL McLEAN: No questions, Mr. Chair. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 21 Fisheries and Oceans? 22 DERRICK MOGGY: I have no questions, Mr. 23 Chair. 24 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Natural 25 Resources Canada? 26 ROB JOHNSTONE: No questions, Mr. Chair. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00367 1 CHAIRPERSON: Hamlet of Chesterfield 2 Inlet, questions? 3 RESIDENTS QUESTION PROPONENT ON PERMAFROST & GROUNDWATER 4 Q HARRY TOOTOO: I have one question. Has 5 there ever been any previous studies done on previous 6 mines that were opened and how -- if their cesspools or 7 whatever you call them, their tailings ponds, have they 8 ever drained out into other lakes or areas? Has there 9 been a study done on previous mine sites? 10 A CAMERON CLAYTON: There have been numerous 11 studies done on mine sites in the north, and currently 12 that's more a question of geochemistry and as it relates 13 to the detailed engineering design for the tailings 14 deposit itself. 15 The proposed disposal method is by freezing and 16 encapsulation of the tailings within the permafrost. 17 And there are similar case studies done, for example, 18 for Rankin Inlet, and the tailings that have been done 19 there. There is recent work that has been done there in 20 terms of freezing of the tailings. 21 So in the Meadowbank case, we have optimized the 22 use of the permafrost to the environment that we are 23 actually constructing in and determined that the best 24 option for disposal of the tailings will be into a 25 confined basin where the tailings will be allowed to 26 freeze and will freeze, and the water and constituents DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00368 1 contained within the tailings will freeze themselves and 2 will be encapsulated within the permafrost. And this 3 is -- again, this is northern engineering and northern 4 design that is being employed here. We have to use the 5 environment that we are working within in order to 6 manage our project. 7 I'm not sure if that answers your question in 8 total. 9 CHAIRPERSON: When you come up to the 10 mic, can you please state your name for our 11 Stenographer? 12 Q HARRY TOOTOO: Chesterfield Inlet. That 13 sounds good. I am just wondering, thinking about my 14 grandchildren and their children and with the Kyoto 15 Accord not being signed by different countries, and even 16 today we feel the effects of the environment changing, 17 now 20, 30, 40 years from now, those are still going to 18 be frozen. And when this land does begin to thaw, who 19 is going to be responsible? 20 A CAMERON CLAYTON: These are excellent, 21 excellent questions. 22 Again, with the environment that the mine will be 23 constructed within, it is necessary to apply frozen 24 engineering or cold region's engineering design 25 principles. 26 However, as indicated earlier in the talk, the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00369 1 precautionary principle has been applied as well, and it 2 is possible to modify the engineering design based on 3 actual site data that is collected during operations to 4 address those issues, and there is alternative means of 5 addressing those issues as climate changes. 6 There is no way of predicting how long climate will 7 change, whether or not the warming trend will continue 8 or slow down or go in the opposite direction, but it is 9 a matter of implementing warm temperature engineering 10 principles and cover principles to the environment once 11 we determine if that, in effect, is happening. 12 If the warming trend is continuing during the 13 operational life of the mine, you will continue to 14 monitor and assess your modelling against the data that 15 you continue to collect. And you modify your design, 16 accordingly, over a period of time to accommodate the 17 effects, the potential effects of climate change. 18 It is possible to engineer the waste management of 19 the project to accommodate climate change and warming 20 trends, if necessary. 21 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Local 22 residents, any questions? Come up to the mic, please. 23 Q ELI KIMMALIAJUK: Thank you. I am still Eli 24 Kimmaliajuk. 25 I am not a councillor at the Hamlet, but speaking 26 of Meadowbank, concerning Meadowbank, as we in the world DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00370 1 are, we are only borrowing the land, and we were 2 listening. The fish are going to be -- that the lake 3 would be defished. I think I have been told knowing the 4 people of Baker Lake and we don't know, because we are a 5 little too far from Meadowbank. 6 Now, as you know, when fish are being moved from 7 one lake to another, how big is the lake and if we can 8 be informed as to how big the lake is? And how far is 9 the lake from Baker Lake, if you can tell us that? 10 Okay. Those are the questions I have for 11 Meadowbank, concerning Meadowbank. 12 CAMERON CLAYTON: I would like to allow Craig 13 to address that. 14 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Yes, thank you for the 15 question. Regarding the fate of the fish and the lakes 16 that we need to drain, there are two options under 17 consideration, one is that we fish the whole lake out 18 and all the fish are taken to Baker Lake to be eaten. 19 The other option is that we try to live capture the fish 20 and move them into the adjacent lake, and those fish 21 that perish, we will then bring those to Baker Lake to 22 be eaten. 23 These two options are still under consideration and 24 will be dealt with in consultation with the KIA. 25 The other question regarding how far the lake is 26 from Baker Lake, it is approximately 70 kilometres north DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00371 1 of Baker Lake. And, Jacob, how long does it take to 2 Skidoo out to the lake? 3 TOM MANNIK: My name is Tom Mannik. I 4 am also one of the coordinators for the environment. 5 From Baker Lake to Meadowbank as one of the reachers, 6 and Jacob Ikinlik beside me is also a researcher. 7 When we travel, we have been told not to travel too 8 fast so that we can keep an eye out as to what's in, 9 essentially when we are travelling along the area where 10 they want to put it. Maybe we travel by five hours, 11 maybe a little over five hours when we are travelling 12 from Baker Lake to Meadowbank. 13 CRAIG GOODINGS: The lake is approximately 14 two kilometres long and about half a kilometre wide. I 15 think that was the three questions. 16 Q HARRY TOOTOO: Harry Tootoo, Chesterfield 17 Inlet. I am sure you guys have heard these questions 18 over and over and over, but to clear in my own mind, the 19 bottom line that we are really talking about here is 20 money. Now, is money set aside for the future clean-up, 21 and is that money put already in a box, or is the future 22 inflation also put into effect so that at the end of 23 this program, this project, the land will be brought 24 back to say 90 percent, 95, whatever it is, back to its 25 original state and the water cleaned up and everything 26 done properly? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00372 1 Is monies set aside for this at the site and also 2 for barges that are going to be back and forth here, and 3 if something spills up in Baker Lake, it is going to 4 eventually end up here? Now, is money set aside also 5 for this? Is money set aside for everything and the 6 future looked at also? Thanks. 7 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 8 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Yes, as far as the mine 9 site goes and the road, for instance, all of that, 10 before construction begins, there will be security 11 deposits put forward for the land to the KIA and also to 12 the Water Board for the water. So the answer is, yes, 13 there will be money allocated for clean-up in the event 14 that Cumberland isn't around to do the clean-up. 15 However, Cumberland, of course, is fully committed 16 to decommission the mine on closure, but that security 17 deposit is there in case of an event. 18 Regarding spillage into the marine environment that 19 is covered under the Shipping Act, and the ultimate -- 20 the immediate responsibility will be the barge captain 21 that is carrying the freight. However, all of the 22 materials, chemicals, fuel, dry goods that we ship up 23 will be all properly stored, handled and the proper 24 spill kits will be on the barges. 25 I think you will be aware that generally mining is 26 a heavily-regulated industry, the most highly regulated DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00373 1 industry in the world, and everything we do has 2 regulations attached to it in addition to the NIRB 3 process. So basically everything is handled according 4 to the law. 5 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. There is 6 another question. 7 Q ELI KIMMALIAJUK Thank you. When everyone 8 is having a discussion in regards to anything that has 9 to do with environmental-related issues, I find it very 10 challenging to talk about some issues related to this. 11 And I have another question in regards to another 12 issue. Although you seem to be focussing on Baker Lake 13 area, since I have been here, I heard this so far. I 14 tend to ask in support of people so they can get a 15 chance to get employment, job opportunities. 16 And as we all know, in Chesterfield Inlet as the 17 local people in Nunavut close to Wager Bay, the people 18 used to work there many years ago doing the prospecting, 19 people did all kinds of explorations in that area close 20 to the river, and I understand that they abandoned some 21 stuff over there in 1970s, and up to today they see all 22 kind of debris in the river. 23 Are you going to do the same thing? Are you going 24 to leave all kinds of garbage in all of those areas that 25 you are saying that you are going to be working where 26 the mining process is going to take place? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00374 1 I understand that all the field, field drums, they 2 are contaminating the river and the land. We have been 3 told this many times by the people who go to that area, 4 who lives in that area annually, seasonally. I am 5 mostly concerned about my youth, next generation, they 6 are the ones we have to support. Thank you. 7 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 8 A CRAIG GOODINGS: The question generally was 9 will we clean up? Will we leave any garbage behind? 10 The answer to that is no. On closure of the mine, the 11 mine will be fully decommissioned. All materials will 12 be removed and properly disposed of. I think that 13 answers the question. 14 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. There was 15 another question. Could you please state your name when 16 you come up to the mic? Thank you. 17 LEO MIMIALIK: My name is Leo Mimialik. I 18 have a question for this fellow, and I understand that 19 you were saying that 15 metres permafrost, it is very 20 close to the surface. 21 It is only two level in Rankin area. And it was 22 like this fellow has experienced to work there, very 23 close to permafrost and also down to 34 underneath. 24 This was only my concern as you stated earlier in 25 regards to how deep the permafrost was in the 26 underground from the surface. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00375 1 A CAMERON CLAYTON: Okay. I hope I can answer 2 your question. There are two, two aspects of permafrost 3 that define permafrost, and one is the active layer or 4 the thaw zone, and that's essentially the depth of thaw 5 penetration during the summer months. And the actual 6 depth of thaw penetration is based on a number of 7 parameters such as slope aspect, the location of the 8 sun, vegetation cover, rock type and so on. 9 But typically the thaw zone is on the order of one 10 and a half to two and a half metres in general terms. It 11 varies from place to place and site to site. It can 12 vary substantially over a distance of 10 to 15 metres or 13 so, so that's the first aspect of permafrost is the thaw 14 depth. 15 The second aspect of permafrost is the actual depth 16 of the permafrost, and that's how deep do you have to go 17 into the earth before you are out of frozen conditions. 18 Again, this is variable, it depends on a number of 19 different factors, it depends on latitude or how far 20 north you are, how far east or west you are, and so on. 21 Based on the site-specific data collected at the 22 Meadowbank site, the permafrost depth is estimated to be 23 in general between 470 and 530 metres in depth. And, 24 again, that's away from the influence of lakes. 25 As you get closer to lakes or large bodies of heat, 26 which is basically what a lake is, the depth of DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00376 1 permafrost becomes less. But in terms of the background 2 permafrost depth, it is on that order of thickness, and 3 that's roughly 1500 feet or so. 4 This is consistent with other projects in this 5 particular area. It is consistent with measurements 6 that have been done at Rankin Inlet, at Lupin mine, at 7 projects in similar locations in the North. 8 I hope that answers your question. If not, you can 9 try and clarify for me. 10 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. I think he just 11 stepped out. You had another question there and then 12 you can come up. As soon as he is done, you can come 13 up. 14 Q ELI KIMMALIAJUK: I didn't get the answer on 15 my first question, I am going to make clarification 16 here. 17 I specifically was not indicating or pointing at 18 anyone, I was being general in regards to what I have 19 experienced, what I have heard the contaminants in areas 20 of the past results. I was indicating earlier that 21 people used to come up here a number of years ago by the 22 Wager Bay, Chesterfield. Between Chesterfield and Wager 23 Bay there is a river, and perhaps I think it is about 80 24 miles from here, Chesterfield Inlet. 25 There are very old drums, 1970s, they are 26 abandoned, they are in the river and the lakes. They DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00377 1 are contaminating the land, and they have not been 2 cleaned. What are you going to do about it? They are 3 quite far by Skidoo or by boat, that was my question. 4 That was my initial question. 5 I am talking about the stuff, the contaminants that 6 is still contaminating the land, some old field drums 7 that people left behind, what are you going to do about 8 it? And the people here in Chesterfield Inlet, they are 9 all aware of those contaminated -- that they are 10 contaminating our mammals such as seals and other 11 animals, this was my concern. That was my initial 12 question. I don't think you understood my first 13 question, thank you. 14 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Cumberland? 15 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Thank you, again. I 16 understand that your concern of waste left on the land, 17 we share that concern obviously. However, the drums you 18 are speaking of are not in any way related to our 19 project. So your question regarding who is to clean it 20 up, that needs to be addressed to another agency. 21 However, I would add that if you know these drums, 22 you should report them and then it could be put and 23 properly dealt with, unless these are already well-known 24 sites, in which case -- I don't know if INAC has 25 anything to add to this conversation, but that's all I 26 can answer. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00378 1 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 2 CARL McLEAN: It is Carl McLean, INAC. I 3 am not sure the exact drums the gentleman is talking 4 about, but INAC is certainly interested in finding out 5 the location of these drums and we could certainly 6 investigate it. 7 We do have a contaminated sites program that looks 8 at all contaminated sites to find out ways that we can 9 get these old sites cleaned up. Thank you. 10 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Are there any 11 other questions regarding the presentation? Go ahead. 12 Can you please state your name when you come up to the 13 mic? 14 Q GARY IPIAK: Thanks. Gary Ipiak 15 (phonetic), Chesterfield Inlet. I just have one 16 question, did you guys ever, like, find any hazardous 17 materials in the waters of the Nunavut? 18 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 19 A CRAIG GOODINGS: The answer would be no, we 20 haven't found any hazardous materials, but we are not 21 looking for them. 22 But if it is in relation to our mine, we won't 23 leave any hazardous materials behind. And any hazardous 24 materials that we have, will be handled properly. 25 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 26 questions to the presentation? Yes, go ahead. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00379 1 Q TITI KADLUK: Thank you. Titi Kadluk is 2 my name, of Chesterfield Inlet. 3 I have a question in regards to Meadowbank project. 4 INTERPRETER: I really can't answer the 5 name in Innuktituk. I can't hear it. Sorry. We have 6 technical difficulties here. 7 CHAIRPERSON: Can you please stop? 8 Q TITI KADLUK: I would like to know 9 exactly what is happening to the fish, as to whether 10 they are going to be -- are they going to be caught 11 while they are still alive, or will the lake be 12 dewatered and then gather the fish? That's the first 13 question. 14 The other is as to concerning to try and also keep 15 things clean. The mining companies, if you did 16 something underground, they are different. Obviously 17 there are different techniques for mining, whether it is 18 underground or open pit, and no doubt they are going to 19 be using different equipment. And concerning the mining 20 companies underground or open pit, if they are going to 21 work underground, and no doubt they are not always going 22 to locate the buildings and infrastructure, gold and for 23 metals, and quite obviously they are going to find -- 24 they are going to be mining other -- and so are people 25 informed? 26 I used to work in the mine too. And, you know, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00380 1 back then everything was built onto the ground, and they 2 have been saying, you know, that they are going to watch 3 back then. I don't think it was that way back then. I 4 think that is about all for now. Thank you. 5 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Regarding the fish, the 6 ultimate fate of the fish has yet to be decided. 7 However, if the fish are to be transported from one lake 8 to another, then we will live trap the fish. If the 9 fish are to be transferred to Baker Lake we will 10 probably net the fish. But, in any event, the water 11 won't be drained until the fish are captured. 12 Second question, general clean-up. We understand 13 the concerns of previous mining companies in the past, 14 but fortunately times have changed and mining companies 15 are now willing to take responsibility for their garbage 16 and waste, and we have a very good plan to clean up and 17 manage our garbage and waste while we are at site. So 18 when we leave, we hope to leave it as I showed it on the 19 slide up there, clean, where the fish would still be 20 good to eat and the caribou would be fine to eat. 21 CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you, we will 22 move on to your next presentation, and that presentation 23 is regarding? 24 PRESENTATION ON WATER AND GEOCHEMISTRY 25 VALERIE BERTRAND: Good morning. My name is 26 Valerie Bertrand. I am involved with the project. I am DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00381 1 a geochemist with 14 years' experience with contaminants 2 in the ground, in the water and how contaminants travel 3 in ground and water and how they are generated. 4 I have been involved with the site for five years, 5 as I said earlier. And the purpose of my discussion 6 today is to inform the Board and the people of 7 Chesterfield Inlet as to how at a large mine like we are 8 proposing for Meadowbank, how we evaluate what the water 9 quality is going to be like during operation of the mine 10 and after. 11 This being an environmental impact assessment, a 12 lot of the impacts can be to the water, and so we need 13 to know what the components are in the mine that can 14 affect water quality. Once we know that, then we are 15 able to consider them in our design of the mine and 16 prevent contaminants from going into the water. 17 So I will explain to you the steps of that study 18 that was undertaken at Meadowbank. 19 These kinds of steps were not taken up to 20 years 20 ago. Now we know more of our environment, we know more 21 of how it gets contaminated, and so we study these 22 issues so as not to repeat mistakes of the past. 23 So the study, in order to know what the potential 24 impacts to water are, we need to know what will be 25 disturbed when we actually dig for the gold, how it is 26 going to be disturbed, where are we going to put that DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00382 1 waste, that's all questions for mine design. 2 The engineers tell us where they need to put that 3 waste, the rock, the tailings, where will it go. Once 4 we know that, then we need to obtain information on what 5 is the rock made of that we are going to disturb? How 6 will it behave ten years from now, 50 years from now, 7 100 years from now? Is it going to be a source of 8 problems or a source of contamination? And what carries 9 that contamination is water, oftentimes, and wind. 10 In this case, we focus on water because there is a 11 lot of water at the site. So how much snow, we need to 12 know how much snow, how much rain is there going to be, 13 and what are we going to do with all of that water? Do 14 we need to treat it before we discharge to the lakes? 15 Once we know all of this information, we combine it 16 to provide a prediction of what the water quality is 17 going to be. 18 You have seen this slide, this is the Vault area, 19 which is north, the development north of the general 20 area, the open pit and the waste that is -- anything 21 that is not gold will go to rock storage here. So this 22 will basically be a big mountain with pieces made out of 23 pieces of rock, not a very big mountain but an 24 accumulation of rock here. 25 In the Portage area, we have three pits, Goose, 26 Third, North Portage. And the waste, once you get the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00383 1 gold, there is a lot of rock that goes to this rock pile 2 here. The rock that contains the gold goes to the mill, 3 gets ground down, you remove the gold, and the fine 4 fraction or the tailings go to this tailing impoundment, 5 which was an arm of the lake here. 6 So what we are interested in is what are the 7 impacts to water quality of the rock storage area and of 8 the tailings, and also the effects of the open pit on 9 the water after we are done mining and we flood the pits 10 back up. 11 I will show you, so that you have an understanding 12 of what the waste is, I will show you a cross section 13 through this pit before we start to go for the gold. 14 I'll explain a bit about the rocks that we put in the 15 rock pile. 16 This is the surface, and this is a drawing of what 17 we know is underground, so this is the pit outline. 18 This will be 175 metres deep. The red is the gold, and 19 it is contained with a rock, which is iron formation. 20 Here we have another rock type called ultramafic, and on 21 this side and this side, we have yet another rock type, 22 intermediate volcanic. 23 So all of this is waste, we need to dig it out 24 because we need to go for the gold, we need to get the 25 gold. So this will go to the rock pile which I showed 26 you earlier, and so will this. And at the end when you DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00384 1 flood it, you are going to be left with walls that are 2 going to be flooded with water once you extract all the 3 gold and all of the waste rock. 4 You may wonder why are we concerned about rock when 5 we have -- when we can have barrels of oil. Well, the 6 reason why we are concerned about rock is that when it 7 rains, this is a typical open pit like at Diavik, the 8 rain goes through the rock, picks up metals and fine 9 portions of rock, and those metals end up in the water. 10 So we want to prevent -- we don't want metals going into 11 the water, so we need to know how much metals are going 12 to end up in the water so we can treat it, if we need to 13 treat it. So that is called rock weathering. 14 So for this study, we needed to characterize the 15 rock and how it behaves in time. This is how we 16 characterized, this is how we were able to know what the 17 rock was like. When they evaluate where the gold is, 18 they have to take samples of rock out of the ground, and 19 those samples look like this. It is from drill. This 20 is one rock type, and this is another rock type. 21 What happens is there is along with the gold, there 22 is a little bit of other metals, and those metals will 23 rust with time, just like your car will rust, well the 24 metals in the rock will also rust. 25 And the brown that you see here, those are stains 26 of rust from metals in the rock, and that rust can DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00385 1 affect water quality. So we want to know how much it 2 will rust and what's going to be the effect on water 3 quality. 4 To know how much it will rust in time, we do tests 5 in a laboratory that accelerate, they speed up the 6 rusting. So we take the rock, we crush it down very 7 small grains, we put water through it, way more water 8 than you would ever have on site so that we accelerate, 9 we speed up the process of rusting, and then we can 10 project what that is going to be like under real 11 conditions at the mine. 12 And in order to check that prediction, we actually 13 do some similar tests on the site, this is a picture of 14 weathering tests on site, to be able to cross check our 15 tests that are done in the lab, laboratory. 16 We also need to know what's the quality of the 17 water right now so that we know what the difference can 18 be after, during and after the mine. We take samples of 19 surface water, this is Victor from Baker Lake who helped 20 me with the sampling. So this is water that just drains 21 on the land and goes, ends up in the lake. 22 We take samples of groundwater. Groundwater is the 23 water that's not part of permafrost, that's found 24 underneath thawed zones underneath lakes, and we also 25 characterized the water that's in ditches. Those are 26 important, because those ditches were dug in the ore DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00386 1 zone where there is quite a lot of metals. So the water 2 here represents the type of water we can probably expect 3 at the bottom of the pit, the open pit. 4 And for your information, the area lakes have very 5 low metals in them, they are very, very clean. The 6 surface drainage right now is also very, very clean. 7 The groundwater naturally has some metals in it, that's 8 because it is water that flows through rock, and 9 naturally without the effects of mining there are 10 metals. So whenever water is in contact with rock, it 11 does naturally pick up metals and we see that. 12 And in the trenches, the water there does have 13 quite a bit of metals in it. So we know that when we 14 have the open pit, the water that accumulates in the pit 15 will need to be treated or handled in a special way. 16 When you have all of this information, we combine 17 it into a model, a computer model, and that computer 18 model is also verified against real data to make sure 19 that our predictions are accurate or okay. 20 And then this last slide of mine is to show you 21 what the results are, combine and show you what the 22 results of our predictions are. 23 First of all, the mine site, so in the pits, in the 24 trenches from the rock piles, the waste rock piles that 25 I showed you, the water there, although it will have 26 more metals in it than metals in the lakes, will still DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00387 1 meet drinking water standards. The tailings water will 2 have a lot of metals in it. We will not discharge 3 tailing water during operation. We will need to treat 4 that water at closure when we drain the tailings water. 5 We drain it, we treat it to remove the metals, and clean 6 water that comes out of the treatment goes into the 7 lakes. 8 And the effect of that treated water on the lakes, 9 one is Third Portage Lake, which is in the southern 10 area, and Wally Lake, which is in the northern area, 11 they will both -- the water there will also meet health 12 standards for drinking water. 13 That's it. Questions? 14 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any questions 15 from KIA, NTI? 16 LUIS MANZO: No questions, Mr. Chairman. 17 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Indian and 18 Northern Affairs? 19 CARL McLEAN: No questions, Mr. Chairman. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 21 Fisheries and Oceans? 22 DERRICK MOGGY: We have no questions, Mr. 23 Chair. 24 CHAIRPERSON: Natural Resources Canada? 25 NRCAN QUESTIONS PROPONENT ON GEOCHEMISTRY 26 Q ROB JOHNSTONE: Yes, I have one question. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00388 1 I wonder if you could explain to us how long it would 2 take at the end of the mining cycle for the treatment of 3 that water from the tailings piles before it goes into, 4 released into the lake, and whether it would be 5 continual treatment, longer than that from runoff from 6 those piles? 7 A VALERIE BERTRAND: We are expecting there not 8 to be much water in the tailing impoundment come 9 closure. We are expecting to treat for one summer, and 10 that would be it. 11 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Hamlet of 12 Chesterfield? 13 VALERIE BERTRAND: I can add one thing as 14 well. At the end of mine life, the residual water from 15 the site will accumulate in the pits. And as Craig 16 mentioned earlier, the pit water will only be discharged 17 once water quality is okay. 18 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Local 19 residents? 20 LOCAL RESIDENTS QUESTION PROPONENT ON GEOCHEMISTRY 21 Q ELI KIMMALIAJUK: I have a question. I have 22 another question in regards to Meadowbank project, the 23 mining project. 24 I think you are in process at the very beginning. 25 I understand that you will be marketing your -- what you 26 are going to produce. I think this is going to be very DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00389 1 good for the company. 2 Once the people go out prospecting, people 3 exploring any that is used for minerals, and what 4 happens after you produce gold? What happens if you 5 cannot sell the gold? Like, is there a fluctuation in 6 selling the gold pieces through marketing? That is my 7 question. 8 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 9 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Yes, the question was 10 asked, it is a good question because of course -- I will 11 answer it in two ways. The first part of the question 12 is the gold that is produced at site will be shipped to 13 the mint in Ottawa. 14 And gold is money, so it will always have some 15 value. However that value, as you indicated, does 16 fluctuate, and there is a threshold at which it will 17 become uneconomical to mine the deposit possibly, or the 18 price of gold could go the other way and go up. So 19 there is uncertainty in the commodity of gold, that is 20 for sure, there is risk. 21 However, we anticipate based on the price of gold 22 as it is now and as it has been over the previous years, 23 that the price of gold will stay steady or increase. 24 Our concern is not so much that the price of gold -- the 25 gold will not be worth anything for us. But that is a 26 risk of gold mining, absolutely. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00390 1 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Questions? 2 Q HARRY TOOTOO: Harry Tootoo, Chesterfield 3 Inlet. I have a couple of questions. Number one, to 4 start off with, like before anybody went there before 5 anybody knew there was gold, we can go there and drink 6 the water. Now, when you are done and when everybody is 7 gone, can we still drink the water? 8 Number 2, during operation, the water is going to 9 be contaminated as soon as you put in an ounce of 10 whatever. Now, is there any way of having this water 11 treated as it is being not used anymore like they do 12 with septic systems? Like, they are cleaned as they are 13 released. 14 And, also, how long after the mine is closed are 15 you going to be responsible for the fresh water and for, 16 like, the sediments that are going to be settled at the 17 bottom of these lakes? Even though the water is clean, 18 you are going to end up with sediments, what about the 19 sediments, and how long after will you be responsible? 20 Thanks. 21 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Cumberland? 22 A VALERIE BERTRAND: The first question , the 23 water quality modelling that we did addresses the 24 question of what the water quality is going to be like 25 from before production, so from the very beginning up 26 until closure and then after closure. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00391 1 The water on the site that accumulates on the site 2 will be monitored before discharge, for sure, that will 3 be part of the license, water license. It will have to 4 be monitored such that we will not -- not that we would 5 want to, it would not be legal, and we would not want to 6 release water that is contaminated, of course. 7 Our predictions of water quality, when we account 8 for all of the rock that is disturbed, tells us that the 9 water quality will be okay to discharge without 10 treatment, because largely it is just water that drains 11 the land, it is not tailings water. It is really water 12 that drains the land and drains the waste rock pile. So 13 it actually does meet release criteria. 14 But there will be ongoing monitoring, and if the 15 criteria is not met, then we will have to treat it 16 before discharge, but we don't expect that we will need 17 treatment. 18 RANDY BAKER: If I could just add to 19 that. This is Randy Baker. I'm a fisheries biologist. 20 As Val alluded to, there is ongoing monitoring. So 21 all mines in Canada have to subscribe to very stringent 22 monitoring requirements for the discharge of effluent 23 into any receiving environment so it doesn't contravene 24 the Fisheries Act, and so to make sure that that water 25 is not harmful to aquatic life. That deals with the 26 effluent. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00392 1 This mine also has a very strict monitoring plan 2 throughout its entire life that looks at water quality, 3 the quality of sediment, the health of the communities 4 of animals that live in the sediments and in the water, 5 as well as the fish. So there is an ongoing monitoring 6 program in and around the mine site and elsewhere to 7 make sure that we can detect any problems in water or 8 sediment before it causes problems to animals. 9 VALERIE BERTRAND: And I will also add that 10 fish are more sensitive to humans for a lot of 11 parameters, so our guiding criteria is sensitivity to 12 fish, because those criteria are much more stringent, 13 they are much more restrictive than those to protect 14 humans. 15 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 16 questions? 17 Q HARRY TOOTOO: Harry Tootoo, Chesterfield 18 Inlet. 19 So I just want to get to the bottom line. Once the 20 mine is shut down and everything is back to normal, say 21 20 years, 50 years down the road after everything is 22 okayed, something does pop up, who is responsible? 23 Thanks. 24 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 25 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Craig Goodings, Cumberland. 26 We are responsible to make sure the land is back to DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00393 1 normal when we leave, and that means that you can drink 2 the water now, you will be able to drink the water while 3 we are there, and you will be able to drink the water 4 when we leave, including eating the fish. 5 The actual length of time that it will take to do 6 that, and it will be depending whether the KIA agree 7 with it, KIA, because they are the surface owners of the 8 land, and that will be negotiated before we get access 9 to build the mine. 10 But you can be assured that we will not be -- KIA 11 will not sign off the land, our responsibility for the 12 land until it is cleaned up to their satisfaction. 13 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Before we move 14 on to other questions, we will break for lunch. We will 15 be back at 1:15 p.m. 16 (ADJOURNED AT 12:00 P.M.) 17 (RECONVENED AT 1:15 P.M.) 18 CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon, everybody. 19 Welcome back. We will continue with the questions. 20 Any questions from the local residents? 21 Q LEO MIMIALIK: My name is Leo Mimialik of 22 Chesterfield Inlet. All the people doing the project in 23 Baker Lake. On the barges will be coming in, they will 24 be using them for shipping the supplies and also between 25 here and Baker Lake, are you going to be using six or 26 seven barges during the shipment period, shipping DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00394 1 season? 2 It would be nice to see a port being placed here so 3 they can stop between here en route to Baker Lake, then 4 so they won't have to come all the way from south 5 straight to Baker Lake to Meadowbank project, it will 6 cut down the cost too. 7 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 8 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Currently the plan is to 9 go from Churchill straight to Baker, just like the 10 barges do nowadays when they pick up in Churchill, and 11 the same with barges that come out of Montreal, they 12 will come straight down to Chesterfield Inlet. There is 13 no intention for us to stop anywhere, as there is no 14 reason for us to have to pull into ports. 15 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 16 questions? 17 Q ELI KIMMALIAJUK: What Leo just said, 18 Mimialik, I am supporting his concern or question. 19 In regards to my question, eight miles, ten miles 20 between here, normally anchored close to this area, it 21 goes up to Baker Lake -- en route to Baker Lake, 22 sometimes it stops here between here and eight to ten 23 miles. 24 In regards to my concern about the fish habitat, 25 they tend to spill fuel between -- and barges goes back 26 and forth to Qamanit'uaq, to Baker Lake. How are you DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00395 1 going to protect the marine, and are there going to 2 continue, like, with fuel spillage en route to Baker 3 Lake? This is the main route between here and -- 4 seasonally, are you going to support that, are you going 5 to make sure that there is no more spillage, to be more 6 careful, to provide more programs to prevent such a 7 thing to happen? Are you going to inform us? Like, how 8 are you going to mitigate possibility of spillage? 9 Like, this has been happening for some time now, 10 and sometimes they just -- we have to clean the beaches 11 in our area, although the people who is responsible for 12 the shipments, they don't take the responsibility. We 13 tend to look after them, like the contaminants. We are 14 mainly concerned about our survival, that means to us 15 such are the seals and fish. And, like, you should 16 forget about us, because we are in the -- very close to 17 the shipping routes. Chesterfield is very close to the 18 shipping routes. This is my support for Leo's question 19 or concern. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 21 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Thank you for the 22 question. 23 We are also concerned with the protection of the 24 marine life in Chesterfield and in Baker Lake and all 25 the areas we could potentially have an impact to. And 26 to ensure that the animals and wildlife are protected, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00396 1 we would look at it -- we use a series of techniques. 2 We, first of all, mitigate the potential for a spillage 3 by making sure we hire the experienced shippers. 4 Secondly, we make sure the equipment and the chemicals 5 are properly stored on the ship, and that the people 6 handling the chemicals are trained to do so safely. 7 However, with any human activity, there always is 8 an opportunity for error and mistakes, and so the second 9 line of defence would be that all the ships will contain 10 the proper spill kits to clean up any spills that might 11 occur, however unlikely this event would be. 12 If in the event there is a spill, we would, along 13 with the shipping agent, make sure the spill is cleaned 14 up, but we anticipate that that will not happen by 15 following the proper proceedings for handling the 16 material and shipping it in the correct containers and 17 with due diligence of safety. 18 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Maybe we can 19 move onto the wildlife presentation, or fisheries, 20 sorry. Thank you for your presentation. 21 PRESENTATION BY PROPONENT ON FISHERIES AND AQUATIC: 22 RANDY BAKER: Mr. Chairperson, members of 23 the Board. My name is Randy Baker. I'm a fisheries 24 biologist and aquatic ecologist. I have been working in 25 the Arctic for 25 years. I have about eight or nine 26 years of experience now working at the Meadowbank DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00397 1 project lakes, and it is my pleasure to be here in 2 Chesterfield Inlet to address local residents and 3 hopefully answer some of their questions and concerns. 4 During the past, well, since 1997, since I have 5 been involved with the project, I have been responsible 6 for conducting studies on the quality of the water in 7 the lakes potentially affected by the project, looking 8 at the sediment chemistry, the mud on the bottom, 9 looking at the health of the communities of the animals 10 that live in the lake that support fish, fish 11 populations themselves and the habitat that supports the 12 fish. 13 We have had a lot of assistance from local people 14 like Tom Mannik and others to help us in collecting the 15 water samples from these lakes that are, as you can see 16 from the photograph, where they -- well, it is a very 17 nice day for one, but the water quality, as Valerie 18 alluded to earlier, is very high in these lakes, it is 19 excellent water. 20 We also put a great deal of emphasis on 21 understanding the chemistry of the sediment. This is 22 the mud that is on the bottom. Ultimately, this is the 23 place where contaminants will go. Quite often you look 24 at the sediment as the destination of where you find the 25 contaminants. So understanding the natural sediment 26 chemistry before the project occurs is very important to DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00398 1 us because this can be the signature or the early 2 warning system of where you might find a problem, if 3 there is some sort of contaminant released. 4 So this is a picture of a grab sampler that's used 5 to collect sediment from the bottom, this mud right 6 here. And you can see this brown surface layer. 7 Valerie talked about the rust of the sediment, and this 8 is simply the brown oxidization or rust on the surface 9 of the sediment, and this occurs naturally without any, 10 you know, impacts of the project. This is a natural 11 process. 12 Within that mud lives many animals, and these are 13 important for fish as food. So we can take a sieve and 14 remove the sediment particles, and what is left behind 15 are the little tubes or the homes and the animals 16 themselves that live in the bottom, and these are called 17 benthic invertebrates. 18 Animals also live in the water column. These 19 waters are called zooplankton, and they are important as 20 food for all juvenile fish, as well as adult Arctic 21 char. 22 Filtering these animals through a net, you can see 23 that you can actually see quite a few of these animals 24 that you can't see otherwise, but if you concentrate 25 them, you realize that there is a fair number of these 26 animals. So understanding their distribution and DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00399 1 species composition and abundance in these lakes is also 2 important. 3 Of course, most people are interested in the fish, 4 because this is what we eat, it is also what many other 5 animal species eat, essentially some fish-eating birds. 6 This is a photograph of Arctic char, there is two 7 char in this photograph. These are land-locked char, 8 not sea-run char. And this is a picture of a large lake 9 trout. Most of the lakes are dominated by lake trout. 10 Ultimately, of course, we are concerned that the 11 habitat that we leave behind after the mine development 12 is as productive, if not more productive, than before 13 the mine development. So this is my responsibility, as 14 this mine goes forward, I have to understand the habitat 15 elements that exist in these lakes, how they might be 16 affected by the project, how to prevent these effects 17 and how to mitigate any impacts during mine operation, 18 but particularly after the mine operation is gone so 19 that future generations of fish and the people that use 20 these fish are not affected. 21 To briefly summarize, the project lakes are what we 22 call headwater lakes, they are located at the extreme 23 upper ends of the watershed of the Quoich River. There 24 are no large lakes or streams that flow into these 25 lakes, they are fairly isolated. These lakes are also 26 nutrient poor. They do not have a lot of food in them DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00400 1 for animals. That is not to say that there is not lots 2 of fish there, but that is to say that these fish are 3 many large fish but very slow growing fish. 4 The Quoich River, at the lower end, has an 5 impassable falls called the St. Clair River Falls, and 6 this falls does not allow upstream movement of sea-run 7 char. 8 This a picture of a map of the study lakes. This 9 is the same picture that's on the wall over there. If 10 any of you are interested, after the presentation, I 11 would be certainly willing to speak to you about more 12 detail about this map. This simply indicates where the 13 major lakes are, Third Portage Lake where the Goose 14 Island development is, this is the outlet of Third 15 Portage Lake into Second Portage Lake. 16 This drainage is joined by the Vault Lake where the 17 other pit development is that flows this direction, 18 joining the discharge from Third Portage, that all of 19 the project-related water goes into Tehek Lake. 20 Ultimately, water from Tehek Lake flows into the Quoich 21 River and into Chesterfield Inlet. 22 These symbols indicate areas where we have 23 collected water, sediment, benthic animals, plankton and 24 this next map shows where we have collected fish over 25 the last eight or nine years. 26 So this map indicates the study lakes in a broader DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00401 1 perspective. So here is Third Portage and Second 2 Portage Lake, and the upper part of Tehek Lake, which is 3 a very large lake. We have also done fisheries studies 4 in nearby lakes, Pipe Dream, Inugugualuit, Amarillik 5 Lake to put our understanding of local fish populations 6 in perspective with regional populations. 7 Fish communities are dominated by lake trout, round 8 Whitefish and land-locked Arctic char. There are also a 9 few other small species that are quite rare in these 10 lakes. 11 The fish habitat is very typical of Arctic lakes. 12 Surface waters are dominated by very coarse substrate, 13 boulders, cobble, rock in the upper 4 metres. The 14 reason for this is that these lakes are ice scoured, and 15 there is a lot of wind all the time, so there is no 16 accumulation of fine sediment on the rocks in the upper 17 few metres. 18 The deeper you go into the bottom, between 4 and 8 19 metres, there is a gradual transition from very rocky 20 material to finer sediments. Ultimately at depths below 21 8 metres, you get that mud that you saw on that 22 photograph, so very, very fine clay silt. 23 Rocky surfaces that are shoals or platforms 24 attached to islands or the mainland are very important 25 as habitat for fish, primarily for spawning and nursery 26 areas, but also for shelter and as feeding habitat. So DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00402 1 we really are concerned about these elements of the 2 habitat to ensure that they are not adversely affected 3 in the long term. 4 To quickly summarize, we have done a large number 5 of baseline studies that are pretty much completed. 6 There are a few outstanding gaps in our knowledge. We 7 don't pretend to know everything about these lakes, but 8 we have a good understanding. 9 There are a few things that we will be focussing on 10 this summer, such as the road access, the all-weather 11 road processed between Baker Lake and the Meadowbank 12 project. 13 Of course, we are in consultation with other 14 regulatory agencies, such as Department of Fisheries and 15 Oceans to make sure that whatever habitat compensation 16 we put in place is acceptable to them, and we will 17 ensure the productivity of this habitat for many 18 generations. 19 As a final comment, a couple of people have 20 mentioned what to do with the fish from the lakes, and 21 this has been discussed with the Hunters and Trappers 22 Organization of Baker Lake. Ultimately, it is up to the 23 people of Baker, in consultation with perhaps the KIA or 24 DFO, to decide what to do with those fish. And those 25 fish will be taken from lakes that are going to be 26 drained, before they are drained or during they are -- DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00403 1 while they are being drained, and provided to community 2 members primarily as food. 3 So that is the -- all I have to say, and I will 4 take any questions. Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Go ahead. 6 RESIDENTS QUESTION PROPONENT ON FISHERIES & AQUATICS 7 Q UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, 8 that I have got the chance to speak. 9 Maybe speak, to ask DFO and the area that's going 10 to be dewatered, obviously they have got places where 11 they lay eggs, and over the years obviously, and they 12 are going to -- they have said as they are closing, they 13 are going to make sure that the bedding for the spawning 14 areas will, if it is going to be put back to the way it 15 was and the water is clean and the fish, even if we can 16 get an answer from DFO, and this is -- so are they going 17 to be -- if they are going to be moving the fish into 18 Baker Lake, or what's going to happen here? That's the 19 answer I would like or the question I would like 20 answered. 21 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 22 A DERRICK MOGGY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 23 Definitely we are working to identify where some of 24 those spawning areas are. We want to be able, at the 25 end of the project, to make sure the amount of spawning 26 habitat that was there to begin with, there is still DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00404 1 that amount there at the end of the project. So we have 2 been working closely with Cumberland to be able to make 3 sure that we know what's going on there right now and to 4 make sure that's going to stay the way it is at the end 5 of the project life. 6 I hope that answered your question. 7 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Another 8 question? 9 Q ELI KIMMALIAJUK: The questions that we are 10 posing here don't really touch us, and so we are -- 11 although we are asking, which will be used by the next 12 generation. They have got to have proper stuff that 13 they need, and they have got to have clean land. And so 14 to inform you that they have got -- maybe I am asking a 15 question that may not be directly to you guys. 16 Some lakes are usually clean, and some lakes have 17 movement of silt in the lakes. Maybe some are very -- 18 some are not that clean that have fish, and some lakes, 19 which are very clean, have fish. Which of the two types 20 of lakes are we -- grow faster? Are the unclear lake s 21 help fish grow faster, or which of the two types of 22 lakes help the fish grow faster? 23 As for those, the Qablunnaq (phonetic), obviously 24 you study all types of things of all kinds of things, 25 maybe so that Inuit could be understood. We would like 26 to get an answer. Maybe it is not mainly for us, but it DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00405 1 is for the questions that we bring where we are asking 2 these questions for the next generation that are 3 growing. And please know that, and I know that there 4 are a number of people here, and they all know as to 5 what I can do and know what my knowledge is, and so 6 that's the way I am. Thank you. 7 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 8 A RANDY BAKER: Thank you for your 9 question. These lakes are very clear lakes. The water 10 excellent, the water quality is very pure. There is 11 virtually no sediment or silts in the lake, and this is 12 because there are no rivers that enter these lakes to 13 clear silt, so they are very clean, pure lakes. 14 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Go ahead. 15 Q HARRY TOOTOO: Harry Tootoo, Chesterfield 16 Inlet. I have a couple of questions. You are doing 17 these -- you have done the studies already on the 18 sediments, is there any indicator, red flag indicators 19 can be put in place once the mine is running, and are 20 studies being done now, like , on these bottom -- have 21 you introduced them to the chemicals that are going to 22 be used in the mine? Thanks. 23 A RANDY BAKER: Thanks for your question. 24 The first question relates to that whether there is a 25 red flag or warning system, and we have established a 26 series of monitoring stations around the mine site to DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00406 1 detect any changes that might occur in the water 2 chemistry or in the population of the animals that live 3 in the sediment. So we do have an understanding of 4 what's there now, and if the sediment chemistry changes 5 and causes an effect on those animals, we can detect 6 that and ensure that we can mitigate whatever might be 7 causing that. 8 And the second part of the question relates to -- 9 I'm sorry, I have forgot. Yes, okay. 10 Q HARRY TOOTOO: Is there ongoing, like, at 11 this moment, are there studies and tests being done with 12 the chemicals that will be used with whatever is on the 13 bottom, how it will be affected? 14 A RANDY BAKER: At this time, no, because 15 these are natural populations, and they are exposed to 16 their natural environment. But when the mine, if the 17 mine discharges any effluent, that effluent is taken 18 from the mine site and delivered to laboratories in the 19 south, and they place animals into this effluent and 20 test them to see if there is an effect. 21 Q HARRY TOOTOO: Harry Tootoo again. Just 22 on the same question, isn't that sort of putting the 23 cart before the horse? Like, shouldn't we be studying 24 now what will happen instead of what's going to happen 25 or what is happening? Thanks. 26 A RANDY BAKER: It is difficult to predict, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00407 1 you know, if there is going to be an effect. 2 Valerie has predicted what the water chemistry will 3 be like, and based on that information, what we 4 understand about the chemistry, we do not believe that 5 there will be harmful effects to animals. 6 In fact, the Environment Canada regulations for 7 mines stipulate that whatever you put into the water 8 cannot be harmful to animals. So there is a law against 9 depositing substances that can be harmful. So even if 10 some harm was found, the process or the effluent would 11 have to be changed to make sure that it is not harmful. 12 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 13 questions? Go ahead. 14 Q LEONI MIMIALIK: The first question I would 15 like to ask, this morning, we had heard that fish will 16 be moved. Now, when the fish have been moved over to 17 another lake, no doubt what they normally consume, it 18 might not be the same in the other lakes, so will they 19 still keep on living? 20 And also, the other question I have, between here 21 and Chesterfield Inlet by helicopter, when I was 22 noticing the snow on -- I was noticing that the snow, 23 you know, and I notice things even though I keep quiet, 24 that's the way I am. I was noticing that it seemed the 25 snow, what I had seen, was for -- it seemed the snow was 26 very dirty. Was that from drilling? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00408 1 And the other thing that I had noticed is that part 2 of the water that I had seen was really yellow. I don't 3 always notice things, and it was after I noticed that 4 there had been -- that there are drillings going on, I 5 am noticing the snow is dirty, and I noticed the water 6 that we flew over was yellow. So is this what we are 7 going to be consuming? Is this the type of water we are 8 going to be -- I am noticing that. 9 It seems who writes the Inuktitut in -- I am 10 noticing the word of over here in behind was concerning 11 -- 12 INTERPRETER: In syllabics, she is 13 asking. It is written properly in syllabics behind you 14 over here. Here it is different, and over there it is 15 again a different character for the same word, one 16 character is not the same as the others. 17 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. To answer the 18 first question regarding -- 19 A RANDY BAKER: Regarding the transferring 20 of fish, transferring fish from one lake to another is 21 an option in front of Baker Lake HTO. If they so wish 22 to do so, there are the same kinds of food resources in 23 the adjacent lake as the lake they would have come from. 24 These lakes are very similar, and they are 25 connected by channels, although it is very difficult for 26 fish to move between them, it is possible. And the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00409 1 short answer is there is no problem moving fish from one 2 lake to another. 3 Craig, do you want to answer the rest of the 4 question? 5 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Regarding the dirty snow 6 and the colour of the water, I'm not sure where you were 7 when you saw that, but I can assure you that at the 8 Meadowbank project, that all of our drill sites are 9 cleaned up while the drilling is taking place and after 10 the drilling is completed. In fact, it is very 11 difficult to tell where we have been once we have 12 completed our drill program. 13 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 14 questions, local residents? KIA, NTI, any questions? 15 LUIS MANZO: No questions, Mr. Chair. 16 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Indian and 17 Northern Affairs? 18 CARL McLEAN: No questions, Mr. Chair. 19 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 20 Fisheries and Oceans? 21 DERRICK MOGGY: I have no questions, Mr. 22 Chairman. 23 CHAIRPERSON: Natural Resources Canada? 24 ROB JOHNSTONE: I have no questions, Mr. 25 Chairman. 26 CHAIRPERSON: Hamlet of Chesterfield? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00410 1 NIRB staff, no questions? Sorry. 2 A UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 3 As someone was saying earlier that -- that they are 4 going to be watching as to what they are doing. I have 5 worked in different mining companies, and they are 6 always -- I noticed that they were always using 7 chemicals and noticed that at every mine site I have 8 worked. And I have also noticed that they weren't 9 keeping track of what they had been doing. 10 Obviously there is going to be -- there are going 11 to be chemicals, and the chemicals through land start 12 flowing through land into different areas. They are 13 saying, you know, they are going to be doing -- making 14 sure that these things aren't happening. 15 And so, again, they were also talking about ships, 16 and obviously the company is going to be getting fuel, 17 either from Baker Lake or -- and so obviously fuel will 18 be shipped up to either by barge or by ships. Okay, my 19 question is I'm a little concerned as to when the fuel 20 is being transferred from one receptacle to another, are 21 you going to be watching for spills and that? 22 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 23 A CRAIG GOODINGS: We are going to make sure 24 that we hire experienced and trained companies to handle 25 our fuel. So we anticipate that there will not be any 26 spills, but we will certainly be on the lookout for that DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00411 1 kind of mishap and we will implement the proper 2 mitigation in case something like that happens. But we 3 hope that by hiring the qualified people, that these 4 things will not occur. 5 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 6 questions? Thank you for your presentation. 7 We will move on to the next presentation. 8 PRESENTATION BY PROPONENT ON WILDLIFE & TERRESTRIAL 9 MARTIN GEBAUER: Good afternoon. My name is 10 Martin Gebauer, and I have been involved in the 11 terrestrial studies on the project, and those include 12 the wildlife and the plant studies. 13 So I will run through this very briefly and give an 14 idea of the kind of work that we have been doing up at 15 the Meadowbank camp. 16 Here you can see, actually, a picture of some of 17 our staff that help on the surveys. In the bottom right 18 picture you can see Jacob Ikinlik, who is actually 19 sitting at the table in front of us here, and Tom Mannik 20 on the right is also at the table in front. And it has 21 been very helpful having Jacob and Tom on these surveys, 22 so they have a wealth of traditional knowledge, as well, 23 that they pass onto us. So we are very appreciative of 24 that help. 25 We look at what's called terrestrial valued 26 ecosystem components, which are basically the things DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00412 1 that are important to the people of Baker Lake and to 2 the wildlife that live there. So we looked at the 3 plants, we looked at caribou, grizzly bear, raptors, 4 which are falcons and owls, geese, and then the smaller 5 birds that you see even breeding around town here. And 6 I will describe a little more of the information we 7 collected on some of these species in my talk today. 8 To start, we mapped habitat or we determined the 9 different plant communities, and this helps us later in 10 our impact assessment when we look at the effect that 11 the mine has on the various plant communities and what 12 that effect might have on the wildlife that use these 13 particular communities. So this an important component 14 of our study. 15 Caribou, of course, are very, very important to the 16 people of Baker Lake; it is a principal food source for 17 them. 18 We are fortunate at the Meadowbank site -- you can 19 see the Meadowbank site right there with the shape here, 20 and these other areas here that are highlighted are the 21 calving areas, so the known calving areas of the various 22 caribou herds in this area. 23 To the west of the Meadowbank site we have the 24 Beverly herd. To the north we have the Ahiak or what 25 was once called the Queen Maud herd. Below Baker Lake 26 is the Qamanirjuaq herd. I believe you get some of the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00413 1 animals in the Chesterfield area as well. North of 2 Chesterfield Inlet is called the Lorillard herd, and 3 further north the Wager Bay, and then there is also 4 smaller herds up in the Boothia and Simpson Peninsulas. 5 So as you can see, these are the calving areas. 6 This is not where the caribou occur, and Meadowbank is 7 not in close proximity to any of those locations. 8 We have been conducting area surveys in about 100 9 kilometre by 100 kilometre study area, and we have 10 conducted these surveys on eight occasions. 11 What I have done here is I have just graphed -- 12 provided a graph showing the number of caribou that we 13 have observed on our surveys. At the bottom is the 14 month, so February, March, April, May, June, July, 15 August and September. 16 So you can see in the winter months is when we see 17 the most caribou in the Meadowbank area. Here we have 18 estimated over 20,000 caribou in that 100 by 100 19 kilometre area. The numbers decrease or decline through 20 the spring into the summer, where we see very few 21 animals, and then again increasing in the middle of 22 August through September, and we assume through the rest 23 of the winter. Although we have not conducted aerial 24 surveys, we do have ground surveys conducted by people 25 like Tom and Jacob that support that. 26 So which caribou herds are actually used in the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00414 1 area? It seems that most of them, at least some of the 2 animals from most of the herds occur here. The larger 3 numbers in the fall may be the fall migration of a 4 portion of the Beverly herd that move through this area. 5 We also have some information on the Wager Bay and 6 Lorillard herds from radio-collaring data that Mitch 7 Campbell with the Government of Nunavut has collected. 8 You can see the Meadowbank site over here, Baker 9 Lake down here, and Chesterfield would be down near the 10 inlet there. 11 The blue indicates the winter range of some of 12 these animals. And you can see, they do come over in 13 the Meadowbank area in the wintertime. Similarly, the 14 Lorillard herd, which is probably the closest to 15 Chesterfield also -- some of the animals also wander to 16 the west in the wintertime and do show up in the 17 Meadowbank area. 18 And we have some limited information that shows 19 that perhaps some of the animals or a few of the animals 20 from the Boothia and Simpson peninsulas may wander down 21 south to the Meadowbank area in the winter as well. 22 We have done surveys for all species, and I will 23 just give another example here of muskox. This shows 24 the area that we have studied, this is 100 by 100 25 kilometres. There is Meadowbank camp and Baker Lake 26 here. As you can see, we have most of our sightings of DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00415 1 muskox up in the northwest corner of our study area. 2 This is the Meadowbank River up here. And some of the 3 herds that we have observed have been over 30 animals. 4 We have similar information for grizzly bear and 5 wolves and wolverine, all of the animals that we have 6 seen from our aerial surveys, but I don't have the time 7 to describe those now. 8 The other large component of our surveys have been 9 breeding bird surveys, and you can see some rock 10 ptarmigan here and a red poll nesting in Baker Lake. 11 And we have put several -- many plots, what we call 12 breeding bird survey plots within the study area to see 13 how many species and what species may be occurring 14 there. We have also conducted surveys for nesting 15 raptors, such as peregrine falcon, and we have very few 16 cliff-type habitat, so we have not actually found an 17 active nest of peregrine falcon or any raptor, for that 18 matter. 19 And we have conducted nesting surveys for water 20 birds, including Canada geese and ducks. And, again, 21 very few nesting or waterfowl appear to be nesting in 22 the area, but we will continue to conduct those surveys. 23 Just to conclude, all of this information that we 24 have collected for our -- for the baseline, determining 25 what and where these animals are occurring we have used 26 to conduct our impact assessment, so that's looking at DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00416 1 how the mine is affecting the wildlife that we know to 2 occur there, and that has many different components. So 3 we look at the impacts of traffic on roads and impact of 4 noise and those kind of things on the wildlife. 5 We have also developed a management or mitigation 6 plan, and that's to reduce the potential impacts of some 7 of these things. So the example I have used with roads, 8 we have traffic speeds of 50 kilometres to avoid 9 collisions with caribou. We have a reporting system 10 where any caribou that are observed in the area are 11 reported back to the truckers so that they can be aware 12 of where these animals might be encountered. 13 And, finally, we have a monitoring program to see 14 how well our mitigation and management is working. We 15 want to make sure that all of the procedures and methods 16 that we have implemented to reduce the impact are 17 working, and if things come up that are new or 18 unexpected, we can provide further mitigation or 19 management. 20 So that's very basically the approach we have taken 21 and is included in our impact statement. So thank you 22 very much. 23 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your 24 presentation. Any questions? 25 RESIDENTS QUESTION PROPONENT ON WILDLIFE & TERRESTRIAL 26 Q HARRY TOOTOO: I hate to sound like I am DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00417 1 trying to put you guys down or anything, but this is our 2 land and we have got to make sure it stays nice and 3 clean. 4 I have a couple of questions. I know down south in 5 landfills they have these bugs that are used for 6 cleaning contaminated soil, oil spills and that kind of 7 stuff, biochemical cleaning and that kind of stuff. Is 8 that going to be -- is any biochemicals or bugs going to 9 be introduced into these waste, like, to clean them up? 10 And anything that is going to be introduced, what 11 effects, what long-range effects will they have? Like, 12 I mean, little things that we don't see, like that's 13 where it starts from and then it just grows and grows 14 and grows. 15 Now, what kind of studies are done, and what 16 ongoing studies are done, and what is going to be the 17 long, long range effect? Like, we might -- you might 18 introduce a little bug and figure it is no problem, 50 19 years down the road, you end up with a big giant, 20 something dreadful. Thanks. 21 MARTIN GEBAUER: Yeah, that is outside of my 22 expertise, so I believe either Valerie or Jim or Craig. 23 Thanks. 24 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Yeah, you are referring to 25 a method where they use biological organisms to clean up 26 organic spills, and that is a method they use in the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00418 1 south to clean up things like old gas stations. We will 2 not be using that. 3 We don't have those same issues, so we will not be 4 introducing any microbes to the soil here. 5 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 6 questions? 7 Q LEO MIMIALIK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Leo 8 Mimialik. Question again, I was asking earlier how many 9 barges are you going to be shipping up? How many barges 10 are you going to be using? 11 I grow up from the land, I survive from the land. 12 From our marines, are they going to be used as shipping 13 routes far away from our land? Are they going to use 14 the same route? 15 The barges will be used for carrying supplies, are 16 they going to be six or eight barges every summer? That 17 was my initial question earlier. 18 Like I said before, if you could set up a big ship, 19 a bigger shipping route by using the bigger ships for 20 carrying supplies, and I understand like there is going 21 to be effect on the sea mammals , such as seals. Like, 22 it is going to be noisier with more supply ships or 23 barges going back and forth. Are there going to be more 24 than six or eight? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 25 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 26 A CRAIG GOODINGS: We expect three to five DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00419 1 annual trips between Chesterfield Inlet and Baker Lake. 2 CHAIRPERSON: Any other questions? 3 Questions from KIA, NTI? 4 LUIS MANZO: No questions, Mr. Chair. 5 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Indian and 6 Northern Affairs? 7 CARL McLEAN: No questions, Mr. Chair. 8 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 9 Fisheries and Oceans? 10 DERRICK MOGGY: No questions, Mr. Chair. 11 CHAIRPERSON: Natural Resources Canada? 12 ROB JOHNSTONE: No questions, Mr. Chair. 13 CHAIRPERSON: Hamlet of Chesterfield, 14 questions? Thank you. NIRB staff, any questions? 15 Board members, any questions? Thank you for your 16 presentation. 17 CRAIG GOODINGS: That concludes 18 Cumberland's presentation at this time. Thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Next presenters 20 are KIA, NTI as a joint presentation. 21 PRESENTATION BY NTI AND KIA 22 JOE KALUDJAK: Good afternoon. I can see 23 you clearly now. Like, it was hard to see you early 24 from the gallery. 25 You are here in Kivalliq. My name is Joe Kaludjak. 26 I am vice-president of KIA. First of all, please feel DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00420 1 welcome in Chesterfield Inlet and also, furthermore, I 2 would like to welcome you. We are here between -- there 3 is going to be Canadian Rangers here in the community. 4 You will be seeing them soon, they are on their way. 5 I have a short -- not too much to say here. It is 6 the springtime. As you can see, not too many people are 7 here in the gallery, besides the population is very 8 small here. There is Rangers are also out of town, but 9 you will see them soon, although they have many concerns 10 to you about the environmental-related issues. 11 I have been here since 1958. I came to school here 12 in Chesterfield Inlet. I spent one year here. I was 13 just a youngster. In the Co-op Hotel here, that used to 14 be our residence. I think I was six years old, six or 15 seven years old, just a child, and that was some time 16 ago. And I have many relatives here, and I am very glad 17 to see you here as it is part of my home town. And I 18 really appreciate that fact that the proponents are here 19 as well. 20 Like I said before, I would like to let people know 21 of Chesterfield Inlet, we are representing you through 22 Kivalliq Inuit Association. It is good for you to ask 23 questions, please bring up your concerns. 24 First of all, I would like to say -- I cannot 25 really see this clearly. The Innukitut font is not 26 working, I am sorry about this. It is a very foreign DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00421 1 language now, it is supposed to be in syllabics. 2 I will talk to you Innukitut. First of all, NTI is 3 here with me representing KIA. We are the bodies of the 4 Nunavut as organizations. Nunavut Tunngavik is 5 representing the whole Nunavut for three regions, 6 Baffin, Kivalliq and Kitikmeot. 7 The KIA, Kivalliq Inuit Association, they are 8 representing our region. This is the first time 9 representing our region through the meetings such as 10 this. During the Meadowbank hearings, preceding 11 hearings, us now, we want to make sure that they are 12 doing their jobs properly, proper proceedings. This is 13 part of our agreement, and Inuit rights and benefits are 14 gained through the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement. 15 This is in Kivalliq region, the project is 16 happening in the Kivalliq region. Like I said before, 17 it is on behalf of all Inuit rights and benefits, and we 18 are going through the proper process such as Nunavut 19 Land Claims Agreement. We are very happy to see you. 20 My friend Luis Manzo and Jeannie will be talking. 21 JEANNIE EHALOAK: Thank you, Mr. Kaludjak. 22 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, ladies 23 and gentlemen. 24 My name is Jeannie Ehaloak. I'm the environmental 25 coordinator for the Department of Lands and Resources 26 for Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00422 1 NTI and KIA reviewed the Draft EIS for the 2 Meadowbank Gold Project. The purpose of the review was 3 to identify potential technical concerns associated with 4 the project. The findings presented herein are based on 5 information provided by NTI, KIA, GeoVector Management 6 SENES and G.R. MacFarlane. 7 A copy of the GeoVector Management Incorporated's 8 final report of the technical review of the Draft 9 Environmental Impact Statement for Cumberland Resources' 10 Meadowbank Gold Project was submitted on April 22nd, 11 2005. 12 The technical review process identified several 13 areas that were considered major project errors and 14 deficiencies and also several areas that lack scientific 15 data. 16 In addition, there were several minor nonconformity 17 issues that were found to be subjective and not 18 necessarily based on applicable research information. 19 First of all, project change, Cumberland has 20 changed the nature of the project in its final 21 feasibility study, which has significantly changed from 22 the project presented in the Draft EIS. 23 The changes that impact the project most 24 significantly are project production change, including a 25 change in pit schedule that impacts the dewatering 26 schedule in the Draft EIS and an all-weather road DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00423 1 access. 2 Production increase from 5,550 tonnes to 7,500 3 tonnes not included in the Draft EIS. There is 4 conflicting information in the Draft EIS as to the 5 production rate with reference to the sizing of the 6 mining fleet to 2.5 million tonnes to 2.7 million tonnes 7 per year, but all water balance, processing and tailings 8 issues are based on 2 million tonnes a year for the 9 plan, 5,500 tonnes per year. 10 The feasibility states that the production rate 11 will be 2,730 million tonnes per year or 7500 tonnes per 12 day. This change increases workforce size, mining fleet 13 size, process plant size, power plant size, fuel storage 14 and transportation requirements, fuel usage, other 15 consumables, tailing disposition rate, air emissions, 16 production life, water balance and timing of discharge 17 into Third Portage Lake. 18 It should be noted here also that nowhere in the 19 Draft EIS are mineable reserves quoted but only measured 20 and indicated resources. 21 Since all resources do not become reserves, the 22 reviewers were not able to ascertain the impact of mine 23 life. 24 All-weather road. The change from winter haulage 25 route to an all-weather road has created a completely 26 new feature to the project. Cumberland has supplied a DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00424 1 matrix of potential impacts and schematics of the road 2 route and potential road cross sections. The reviewers 3 determined that the road requires 34 stream crossings, 4 five which may need bridges and none which have been 5 assessed for environmental impacts, crosses five caribou 6 migratory routes, needs two to four borrow pits for 7 construction, which will all need drill and blast, will 8 require approximately 4 million tonnes to fill and 9 destroys 150 hectares of habitat. 10 The reviewers feel that the potential impacts on 11 the fish and fish habitat, caribou, vegetation and 12 associated socio-economic impacts are substantial due to 13 an all-weather road. The road will also improve access 14 to lakes, potentially impacting fish stocks. 15 Activity at the Lupin, Ekati and Diavik mines 16 indicate a noticeable change has occurred in the caribou 17 population over the past several years due to increased 18 road activity. The reviewers believe not including the 19 complete road study is a critical omission to the Draft 20 Environmental Impact Statement. 21 I will now turn it over to Luis. The map following 22 is just based on the information that was given from 23 Cumberland. The P, if you notice is potential, based on 24 the information we got from Cumberland. Looking at the 25 map, the potential road that they would use, the 26 bridges, the culverts, the quarries are potential, the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00425 1 fishing areas in the blue, according to the Cumberland's 2 report, the hunting and the caribou migration routes. 3 This is the north half, and this is the south half. 4 Now, I will turn it over to Luis. 5 LUIS MANZO: Thank you, Jeannie. Other 6 issues have been also identified, there is no mining 7 plan in place at this time nowhere in the EIS, so 8 therefore need to be included. 9 This is a map to explain the possible marine 10 transportation also most affected. This is the shipping 11 area, and this is the channel here. 12 As a possible impact for the marine for any 13 spilling, any mismanagement of accidents that can lead 14 to a possible compensation of mammals in that, and so 15 rest need to be collected, further information needs to 16 be collected in terms of mammal impacts and the 17 shoreline. 18 Other issues. Soil slumping during dewatering will 19 cause suspended solids and will not allow direct pumping 20 into Third Portage Lake very much, as much as 50 percent 21 according to our consultants of the dewatering part of 22 the project. 23 Fish salvage plan needs to be formalized and 24 scheduled. And at this point we are working in 25 coordination with the proponent. 26 Pit dikes may leak too much through broken bedrock. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00426 1 You will see a picture later how we point out these 2 issues. 3 Turn Lake crossing culvert and construction may not 4 be permafrost and could spread suspended solids into 5 Drilltrail. Draft EIS needs study to confirm 6 permafrost. 7 Turn Lake crossing culvert may become blocked by 8 snow and by ice. 9 Draft EIS needs more information on long-term 10 monitoring wells as current wells are destroyed by the 11 development. 12 Possible leakage, in this area is a pressure water 13 through the pit dam. So right now we have a known area 14 of fractured rock under the pit. That hydraulic head 15 could possibly potentially leak to the water system. 16 We put together the actual blueprint in the Draft 17 EIS overtop of the actual monitoring information 18 assisting into the EIS. So the well map in here is all 19 the control monitoring actually on the side, and which 20 that information has been collected. So after 21 construction, this area will be practically destroyed, 22 so we need to know what monitoring systems would be put 23 together to manage this area. 24 So this layout practically is being changed at this 25 time, and all that information is being changed, need to 26 be documented in the EIS. We base this, of course, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00427 1 based on the documentation presented by the proponent. 2 Other issues, Vault attenuation pond may release 3 metals and nitrates into the environment during 4 reflooding. Caribou may be attracted to tailings as a 5 salt lick, Draft EIS needs to deter, to provide a plan 6 to prevent this to happen. 7 The Draft EIS needs detailed Nunammiut involvement 8 plans that includes the Kivalliq region and the affected 9 communities. A community consultation needs to address 10 those issues in terms of wildlife. 11 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 12 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your 13 presentation. 14 We will take a 15-minute break, and then we will do 15 our question period. 16 (BRIEF RECESS) 17 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Welcome back. 18 KIA and NTI just finished their presentations. Are 19 there any questions to KIA and NTI? Cumberland? 20 CUMBERLAND QUESTIONS KIA & NTI 21 CRAIG GOODINGS: A comment and a question, 22 yes. Just the first comment is, I have said this before 23 at the other meetings, but for this mine to be as 24 environmentally friendly as you want it to be, it only 25 helps when other outside people review the work we have 26 done, and so we certainly appreciate that time that KIA DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00428 1 and other intervenors have taken to review our studies. 2 We are fully confident that the studies were done 3 adequately, and we know in time, we work together with 4 the KIA, which we are doing now, on some of these 5 outstanding issues that we will have these resolved in 6 the Final EIS. 7 But there is a slide on the road, and I would like 8 Jacob Ikinlik to give a few words on his thoughts on the 9 road. 10 Jacob will introduce himself. However, he is from 11 that land and has been working for us for ten years and 12 has been doing many surveys along the road area, and so 13 now I will turn the mic over to Jacob for his thoughts 14 on the road, caribou, and he may talk a little bit about 15 the mine too. Jacob? 16 JACOB IKINLIK: Yes, I am Jacob Ikinlik 17 from Baker Lake. I am from up there. 18 I have lived in the area of the Meadowbank area in 19 the summer and in the winter. When I was younger back 20 then I lived up there. Just looking, that was all that 21 we had. 22 You know, I had hunted. There weren't that many 23 caribou. You know, you were able to catch a few fish 24 every now and then. 25 Concerning the all-weather access road, a lot of us 26 are in support of putting in the all-weather access DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00429 1 road. If there was only to be a winter road only, you 2 know, all the stuff that Cumberland would need would be 3 brought in the summer, and they would have to sit in 4 Baker Lake all summer up until the ice is ready to -- 5 for transport. And so I don't think there is going to 6 be too much of a deterrent for wildlife. 7 Whenever caribou want to go somewhere, travel 8 somewhere, there is nothing that -- there isn't much 9 that will keep them from where they want to go. We have 10 even seen them going through water, they went through 11 water. So I don't feel that the road will not be a 12 deterrent for caribou to move back and forth across. 13 You know, what our thoughts were, we are not always 14 correct, and these are my thoughts. 15 And even if the road is in place, I don't think it 16 will be too much of a deterrent for wildlife. 17 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 18 JOE KALUDJAK: I am Joe Kaludjak. We have 19 been hearing about the road. Obviously there is going 20 to be an impact for the impact, and it is -- in Baker 21 Lake, obviously, it would be well used. And so by KIA, 22 while we were in Baker Lake, we finally got clear 23 understanding as to how -- it seems the people of Baker 24 Lake are in support of putting in the road, and there 25 are a lot of people, and KIA would also be in support. 26 And this has to be clearly understood. And Baker Lake DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00430 1 people have really pointed out that this is something 2 that we support as a lot of people in Baker Lake support 3 the road. 4 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 5 questions? 6 CRAIG GOODINGS: No questions at this time. 7 Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Go ahead. 9 LOCAL RESIDENTS QUESTION KIA AND NTI 10 Q ELI KIMMALIAJUK: As I have been working with 11 you, sometimes I am a little jittery, leery about asking 12 you, Joe Kaludjak. As Joe Kaludjak was saying earlier, 13 as I was listening, KIA will -- as we have economic 14 development officers, and obviously Kivalliq has some 15 way which is geared towards KIA. 16 We are looking towards a lot of different items. I 17 have been expecting that if -- as to monies that are 18 supposed to be used, geared towards Kivalliq. Some of 19 the communities, maybe we are not trying to get further 20 information or maybe -- I wonder if we can get further 21 clarification or maybe this should be asked towards 22 SAKKU, or is it just the KIA board? 23 You know, I have been expecting ever since, and I 24 don't seem to have heard monies coming towards 25 Chesterfield. Maybe I wasn't supposed to ask this 26 question at this point while the member of the KIA Board DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00431 1 hear. And, you know, obviously there are economic 2 developments happening, and while they are here, I would 3 I would give them -- ask them and let them hear our 4 concerns. 5 And also having been part of their Board, although 6 I am -- and so the monies that SAKKU Corporation 7 handles, and I haven't heard, and I haven't heard much 8 coming into Chester. So what's really happening, SAKKU 9 Corporation, what is happening with them? Obviously 10 they are the economic arm of KIA, so I would like to get 11 further clarification on that. 12 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 13 A JOE KALUDJAK: The question, obviously it 14 is not -- it is on the side of the meeting we are here. 15 Maybe just to give clarification as to, we do have an 16 economic development arm, and the other thing I should 17 have brought up, these -- there are businesses in Baker 18 Lake and inside Keewatin, and obviously the private 19 businesses in the various communities could be utilized. 20 And maybe part of the question he is asking, maybe 21 if we can answer him through here or through other way, 22 and essentially when we are dealing with mining at this 23 point, that is about all I can say about that. 24 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 25 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Go ahead. 26 Q LEO MIMIALIK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00432 1 As Jacob was saying concerning caribou, as I do 2 believe him as he has all the knowledge on that, that 3 even if there was a road there, it does not matter too 4 much. 5 I have been talking about, you know, if the channel 6 is used too often, essentially if the barges, too many 7 barges go back and forth, there should -- as we have got 8 to make sure that our seals and water mammals are well 9 looked after, and so no doubt there possibly is going to 10 be a final hearing. I keep -- you know, once the barges 11 start going back and forth, I know that they are not 12 going to be coming through too near the community, I 13 know that. 14 And so thank you, Mr. Chairman, that's why I will 15 keep on bringing it up. Thank you. 16 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 17 A JOE KALUDJAK: Maybe the question could be 18 that maybe if we brought it to Cumberland again, maybe 19 the question has to be added. 20 We know that every summer there are ships that are 21 transporting goods. How many times towards Baker Lake 22 will you have to do shipping from -- I think they were 23 saying about four different barges, either from here or 24 from Chesterfield. 25 I think the question is obviously there is going to 26 be transportation going back and forth by barge, how DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00433 1 many barges per year are we looking at here? Maybe if 2 we could ask that question in that way, how many barges 3 per year. 4 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 5 CRAIG GOODINGS: Hi, Joe. Between three to 6 five trips per year in the summer. 7 The total tonnage, as I put up on the screen, it 8 will be around 50,000 tonnes, and so if we use 9 10,000-foot barges, there is five. If you use heavier 10 barges, it is less. So we anticipate three to five 11 trips per annum. 12 JOE KALUDJAK: Is that adding trips for -- 13 CRAIG GOODINGS: For us, we will be needing 14 five for our use, that's correct. 15 CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you. Any 16 questions to KIA, NTI? 17 Q HARRY TOOTOO: Harry Tootoo, Chesterfield 18 Inlet. I'm sorry, but I am going to speak in English. 19 KIA and NTI are looking over these mines. Are they 20 going to have somebody at the mine to watch over fuel 21 spills, gas spills, anything that is not being done 22 right? Is KIA or NTI going to have somebody there to 23 police, to watch over just to make sure everything is 24 run right? Thank you. 25 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. KIA and NTI? 26 A LUIS MANZO: Yes, we do monitor. We do DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00434 1 monitoring of the plant by the company. We are 2 responsible for that property. 3 CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, can you repeat that 4 again? 5 A LUIS MANZO: Yes, we will monitoring, 6 and we will be watching the process of Cumberland. KIA 7 Lands Department is liable for any liabilities happening 8 on that property, so to answer that question. 9 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 10 questions? Indian and Northern -- sorry, go ahead. 11 Can you come up to the mic and state your name, 12 please? 13 MARIAN JACKSON: My question is directed 14 towards Cumberland. Is this appropriate? This is KIA 15 question period? 16 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, these are KIA 17 questions period, but after they are done, we will do 18 overall general questions. Thank you. 19 Indian and Northern Affairs, any questions? 20 CARL McLEAN: No questions. 21 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 22 Fisheries and Oceans? 23 DERRICK MOGGY: We have no questions, Mr. 24 Chairman. 25 CHAIRPERSON: Natural Resources Canada? 26 ROB JOHNSTONE: No questions, Mr. Chairman. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00435 1 CHAIRPERSON: Hamlet of Chesterfield? 2 Thank you. Any other local residents, any other 3 questions to KIA or NTI? NIRB staff, any questions? 4 NIRB Board members, any questions? Pauloosie? 5 BOARD MEMBERS QUESTION KIA AND NTI. 6 Q PAULOOSIE PANILOO: I obviously know that while 7 we were meeting in Baker Lake, that Inuit lands will be 8 used. Okay, how big is the land that's going to be 9 leased from on Inuit lands, and so the question is how 10 big is the land that they are leasing, fairly big? Or 11 how big is the land lease? 12 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 13 A JOE KALUDJAK: The mining area, is that 14 the question that you are asking? It is quite 15 understandable. Looking at the map, we saw part of it 16 on Baker Lake. 17 Looking at the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement, it is 18 a part on Inuit lands, and also we have a chance to 19 speak on the Inuit lands coming from KIA, and so that is 20 the part of the land that's Inuit owned. 21 Q PAULOOSIE PANILOO: Thank you very much . And 22 so Nunavut Impact Review Board in the different regions, 23 they are normally brought to KIA and so because it is in 24 Kivalliq region, it is the spot. 25 I just wanted to get clearer, because you have the 26 right to do what you have to do on Inuit lands in the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00436 1 Kivalliq area. Thank you. 2 A LUIS MANZO: Just to comment, add 3 comment for the vice-president's response, this time the 4 blueprint of the project is being changed dramatically 5 without having received the final. We cannot assess the 6 area as exact number until we see the final blueprint. 7 We just have the proposed one we do have right now, and 8 that layout which, but it is more than that, but it is 9 just a draft. 10 When the final engineering textiles provided from 11 Cumberland Resources has provided to KIA, then KIA will 12 start negotiating a land lease, and that land lease, all 13 the environmental requirements need to be covered, 14 including the area of the project and all the 15 environmental aspects, including wildlife and any other 16 matters of prevention or prevention of damage to the 17 environment. Thank you. 18 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 19 questions, NIRB Board members? Thank you for your 20 presentation, KIA and NTI. 21 Now we will open up the floor to all general 22 questions. Overall general questions? Cumberland to 23 either KIA or NTI, any questions? Local residents? 24 GENERAL COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS 25 Q MARIAN JACKSON: Marian Jackson of adult 26 educator for Chesterfield Inlet. I have five questions DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00437 1 on the topic of education. And these are the first 2 ones. Granted your project will last from five to ten 3 years, that is understandable, I suppose, and 4 approximately how many Inuit would you expect to hire, 5 and will you be looking to hire from the whole region or 6 just Baker? 7 Number 2, what prerequisites would the applicant be 8 expected to have? Priority will be given to people that 9 have what skills? 10 Three, would your company consider funding a 11 program in a community such as Chester as a preparation 12 for working in the mine, as has been done in the past in 13 the Western Arctic? I have been up here about 12 years, 14 and in the past, a company has offered to finance a 15 program of education in the community as a goodwill, and 16 I would expect that from Cumberland. 17 What courses might you offer in such a program and 18 the length? 19 Number 4, you mentioned training on the job, could 20 you be more specific as to the training employees would 21 receive? 22 And number 5, you mentioned that your training on 23 the job would benefit the employee after the mining is 24 closed. Could you be more explicit on how the training 25 received in the mine would be a benefit to the employee 26 after the mine is closed? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00438 1 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Cumberland? 2 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Thank you for the 3 questions, they are very important questions. 4 If the mine doesn't benefit the Inuit, what's the 5 point of doing it? So Cumberland understands that, and 6 so it is our intention to maximize the benefits for the 7 Inuit through employment. 8 However, one has to look at the circumstances we 9 are in, difficult to get a lot of skilled labourers from 10 Nunavut. However, I will answer the first question 11 first. 12 The mine life, the shortest life that we are 13 looking at now is 8.3 years, but there is two years of 14 construction, 8.3 years of operation and then four or 15 five years of closure, so the total time activity is 16 about 12 years. 17 How many Inuit will we hire? Well, we anticipate 18 through our past experience working in Baker Lake 19 already, that we expect to hire during the construction 20 period about 75, and during operations about 70 local 21 people. These are local untrained people. If there is 22 skilled people around, carpenters, electricians, we will 23 certainly look to hire them, and that would increase the 24 numbers. 25 Given the mine, most of the major impacts are in 26 Baker Lake, i.e., that's where we are going to be set DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00439 1 up. Baker Lake people are going to see the most action. 2 Many of the jobs will go to Baker Lake, however, not all 3 of them. That is an issue to be discussed and worked 4 out between the KIA and ourselves through the IIBA. 5 What prerequisites would an applicant need to have? 6 Well, we expect that a lot of the jobs will require a 7 grade 12 education; however, we will be looking at life 8 experiences and other issues too, not just straight 9 education. 10 Priority will be given to people with skills only 11 because we will be able to put them into carpenter 12 positions, electricians and that kind of thing. 13 As far as the questions regarding funding and what 14 courses. Again, this is an issue for the IIBA, which 15 the KIA and Cumberland are working together on, but 16 there will definitely be some programs to address that. 17 I will add that we have given a list of all the 18 skilled, all the jobs that Cumberland will require to 19 the Arctic College, we gave that list to them three 20 years ago. And we hope, the intent was that they would 21 get together and start putting together training 22 programs that would be suitable for the mining industry. 23 I don't know what the status of that is at this time. 24 We certainly will have on-the-job training 25 programs, that's where the 70 people will come from. 26 The details of that, again, will be something negotiated DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00440 1 in the IIBA, but the intent, of course, is to have 2 on-the-job training. 3 The question of closure, we hope that the mine and 4 the skills and the jobs that we offer will be a reason 5 for the young people of Kivalliq to stay in school, to 6 get their grade 12, to go out and maybe get their 7 tickets in carpentry or electricians, secretarial work, 8 computers, accounting, truck driving, surveying, many 9 skills that the mine will have. These are transferable 10 skills, these are jobs that every Hamlet needs. So the 11 idea is there when we leave, we hope we have left a 12 legacy behind, a positive legacy behind in Baker Lake 13 and the Kivalliq. And that is what we hope to leave 14 when we leave, an educated work force, and that itself 15 should generate more prosperity. 16 It is an important question, and the answers aren't 17 all there yet, but we know it is something that needs to 18 be addressed and it will be as best we can. I hope that 19 answers your question. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 21 Q MARIAN JACKSON: My concern is that it takes 22 money to train people. And in the past, companies that 23 have come up have funded themselves a training in a 24 community, and I am wondering if Cumberland has set 25 aside any money for, like, say Chesterfield to have a 26 three months or four months' program to train the young DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00441 1 people in particular skills? And I don't -- I think -- 2 I am asking that directly to Cumberland. Have you 3 considered that? 4 A CRAIG GOODINGS: Yes. 5 Q MARIAN JACKSON: Could you speak in a little 6 bit more details, please? 7 A CRAIG GOODINGS: All right. It is 8 difficult to give you details. The intent is there, 9 however, until we have the IIBA, I can't give you 10 details. That would preclude, but certainly the intent 11 is there will be training monies available, whether it 12 is a joint between Cumberland and the government or some 13 kind of program like that. But we certainly understand 14 the desire and the need, and also Cumberland would 15 rather -- we have 350 employees in the camp during 16 operations, or 250 at a time, 100 out on rotation. 17 We would prefer to have 100 percent Inuit 18 employment of that mine, but, you know, that is just not 19 what we can do here. There aren't engineers. We just 20 don't have the skill sets we need. However, in time we 21 hope that will be the case, but it is our intention to 22 maximize employment and help the KIA work with us to 23 develop these programs. 24 MARIAN JACKSON: Okay. 25 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 26 questions? There is a gentleman there in the back? DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00442 1 Q GARY IPIAK: Gary Ipiak, Chesterfield 2 Inlet. 3 My question is concerning dangerous by-products or 4 materials that may be in the ground, it is concerning a 5 dangerous by-product called uranium. Like, if there is 6 ever -- like, we live off of animals that roam around 7 the land, such as caribou or polar bear, and they eat 8 off the land, and I am wondering what all -- what be 9 done on that? 10 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Cumberland? 11 A CRAIG GOODINGS: We don't anticipate there 12 to be any hazardous materials left in the land when we 13 complete the mine or, in fact, while we are operating 14 the mine. However, to verify that prediction, we will 15 be setting up monitoring plans that will monitor the 16 vegetation and some of the aquatic species. This is 17 a -- well, we know, this will be so our predictions can 18 be shown to be true. And if there is an indication 19 there is some contaminants entering the food chain, then 20 we will know about them early on and rectify the 21 situation. 22 However, we anticipate there will be no 23 contaminants on to the vegetation and, therefore, the 24 caribou and the fish will not have any contamination, it 25 will be fine to eat. 26 And also just the question of uranium, this is a DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00443 1 gold mine. There is no uranium associated with our 2 product. 3 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, any other 4 questions from the local residents? 5 Q LEO MIMIALIK: How big is the lake that 6 Meadowbank is on where you are going to be mining? He 7 is asking Jacob Ikinlik from where the mining area is. 8 I am concerned of that, and if they are going to be 9 dewatering it, because, you know, wildlife are going to 10 be, you know, drinking the water at any time, and so is 11 this going to be monitored, and that's what I would like 12 to see. 13 And as the adult education, you know, you should be 14 training people. There are a lot of unemployed people. 15 Even though there is a lot of mining companies, maybe 16 KIA, they are listening to us now, and they are here. 17 If they have any powers, Chesterfield Inlet, as there is 18 no employment outside of the Hamlet housing and a few 19 small businesses. There is a lot of unemployment here, 20 and as also KIA, so that members of Chesterfield could 21 work in the mining sector. Thank you. 22 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Cumberland? 23 A CRAIG GOODINGS: I'm sorry, I didn't get the 24 question. 25 CHAIRPERSON: The question was how big 26 was the lake that was going to be dewatered. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00444 1 CRAIG GOODINGS: The lake is about one and 2 a half kilometres long and half a kilometre wide. 3 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Questions? 4 Q TITI KADLUK: Thank you. Titi Kadluk is 5 my name from Chesterfield of the hamlet, I'm a council 6 member of the Hamlet. 7 I have heard the adult education educator. They 8 will -- the students here, school children, they will 9 have to reach grade 12, finish school, graduate then 10 eventually enter workforce for the mining project. And 11 I think Cumberland should have some programs available 12 for them after they finish high school so they could 13 learn some programs out of that field. And if they -- 14 this is the only way that they can be involved for job 15 opportunities. 16 Myself, when I was working at the mining company in 17 Rankin Inlet, I did lots of labour work, and I am not 18 educated. We didn't even speak any English language, we 19 never have gone to school in the past, everything was 20 very new to us. Then when we went to school, when some 21 of us went to school, we went as far as age 16. 22 Now, there is young people today, they are in 23 school much older than at age 16, and I would like to 24 see KIA to give them support to this education or 25 training programs. I think they are the ones, that have 26 responsibility that they should be informing us that's DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00445 1 more up to date, so we will know what's going on. 2 It takes time to develop a mining project, so we 3 will have to be informed during the process. I am 4 speaking on behalf of young people. Unemployed is very 5 high here, and it is getting worse. Nowadays, there is 6 more people, they can work, they are just waiting around 7 for any job opportunities. 8 Like I said earlier before, we were hardly educated 9 in English, we were able to hold jobs, and we want that 10 pushed to get higher education in those days. 11 And the person coming from Qamanit'uaq, Baker Lake, 12 and he is in support of all-weather road, and he would 13 like to see the all-weather support for the company, for 14 Cumberland although they stated that it is not going to 15 be affecting the caribou. And I have heard of the 16 Tundra Gold Mine north of Yellowknife, and I worked 17 there in the past as well. And there is a lake over 18 there with lots and lots of fish in it, very good fish 19 habitat, and there were thousands of caribou in the 20 summertime, even at the site. 21 And now after the project has been finished, I 22 understand that caribou went back. Like if you have 23 four feet in that area as part of the habitat, I think 24 you can survive. 25 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 26 questions? Any other questions regarding Cumberland DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00446 1 Resources, local residents? NIRB staff? Board members? 2 Lucassie? 3 BOARD MEMBERS ASK GENERAL QUESTIONS 4 Q LUCASSIE ARRAGUTAINAQ: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 5 It was related to waste rock. In Baker Lake, we were 6 told that in the bulk area, that waste rock will not be 7 covered, it says 75 percent of it was nongenerating 8 acid-generating rock, and I presume that 25 percent is 9 acid-generating rock, and is that not too significant 10 to -- is that the reason why because it is only 25 11 percent that is not really significant to cover the 12 waste rock? 13 CRAIG GOODINGS: Valerie, you can answer 14 this question. Did you hear it? 15 A VALERIE BERTRAND: Okay. My name is Valerie 16 Bertrand. I'm a geochemist for the project. 17 You are right, there is worst case, there can be 25 18 percent of that Vault rock pile that could generate some 19 acidity, but we, in fact, find that out of that 20 20 percent -- 25 percent, there is really only 10 or 11 21 percent that is -- that has the opportunity to generate 22 a lot of acidity. 23 To determine whether rock will leach metals into 24 the ground and will generate an acidic drainage, there 25 is two things that will -- that come into play, one is 26 its ability or its potential to leach metals to rust, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00447 1 and the other one is its potential or its ability to 2 prevent those metals from going in the ground. There is 3 metals or minerals in the rock that are responsible for 4 rusting, and there is other minerals in the rock that 5 counteract this, the release of metals. 6 In the Vault pile, there is more of that good 7 material, more than twice that good material in the 8 rock, so that's why we are confident that it will not go 9 acid. There is more, much more of a better material 10 than the bad material that can go acid. 11 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 12 questions? Yes, go ahead. 13 Q ELI KIMMALIAJUK: Eli Kimmaliajuk is my name. 14 I keep repeating, talking about the shipping routes 15 for barges, we are right on the route here. There is no 16 regulations coming from Nunavut Government here, there 17 is no MLA member here. Sorry, there is no MLA who is 18 representing us through our Nunavut. 19 Like I stated earlier, some big ships come through 20 here, sometimes they anchor just outside for two weeks, 21 over two weeks, and the barges goes back and forth to 22 pick up the supplies from the big ship, they go back and 23 forth to Baker Lake for Cumberland company. That's 24 going to be our ongoing concern, and I would like to see 25 our MLAs to look into this matter so they could support 26 us. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00448 1 My main concern is the big ship normally just sits 2 out there for a number of days, for weeks, and I think 3 it would be good if, like, they should be more -- they 4 should be given more regulations to follow coming from 5 our government. They just seem to sit there doing their 6 own thing in our waters. And there is people here from 7 Fisheries and Oceans department from the government, 8 they are witnessing some issues that we are talking 9 about. 10 It would -- like, we are always going to be in this 11 route with the ships going back and forth, the barges 12 going up to Baker Lake. Our main concern is we don't 13 want to lose our habitat because it is containing our 14 food. I am really glad to see the fact that people are 15 here from Baker Lake, and this is our main headaches as 16 Chesterfield Inlet residents. We would like to see lots 17 of support in that area in regards to shipments that go 18 through here. 19 I have no doubt the fact that they are not 20 following the regulations properly, and we are not going 21 to forget this until we get some issues, to resolve some 22 issues related to those, the concerns that we have. 23 This is all I have to say. Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. I think that 25 was more of a comment. Thank you. Any other questions 26 before we move onto -- sorry, go ahead. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00449 1 CRAIG GOODINGS: I am just going to -- John 2 has some comments regarding the law around shipping for 3 this gentleman regarding what responsibility of the 4 Nunavut government is. 5 JOHN DONIHEE: Mr. Chairman, I was just 6 going to point out that marine shipping is covered under 7 Article 6 of the Land Claim Agreement, and that if there 8 is damage that results from the marine shipping 9 activity, that there is an absolute liability system in 10 place which would allow Inuit to claim compensation for 11 losses of income from wildlife harvesting, both present 12 and future. So it is a very comprehensive liability 13 system that does protect Inuit against these problems 14 that have been talked about a couple of times. 15 And if, in fact, those sorts of claims have to be 16 made, the HTO, NTI or KIA could be called upon to assist 17 the individual harvester who suffered a loss. So there 18 is a very comprehensive system in place under the NLCA, 19 and I just thought perhaps the local people should take 20 some comfort from that. 21 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any other 22 questions before we move onto our final presentation? 23 Our final presentation, INAC? 24 CARL McLEAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 25 Good afternoon, everybody. I wanted to thank the 26 Board for the opportunity to speak to you and the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00450 1 community members from Chesterfield Inlet here today. 2 My name is Carl McLean, and I am speaking to you as 3 Acting Director of Operations for the Nunavut regional 4 office of Indian and Northern affairs. 5 With me today are other staff from the Nunavut 6 office. To my immediate right is Robyn 7 Abernethy-Gillis, environmental scientist. To my far 8 right is Mike Hine, he is resource development advisor 9 for economic development. Also with us are Charles 10 Drouin, communications officer at the back table, Alison 11 Cormier, administrative assistant. We have also brought 12 some of our consultants who assisted us in preparing our 13 comments to the Board so we can do our best to answer 14 any questions you may have. We have Mark Watson from 15 EBA Engineering Consulting Limited who is a specialist 16 in the field of geotechnical and permafrost practicing 17 in mine and quarry design and planning, and also we have 18 Norm Cavanagh, counsel to INAC. 19 INAC, Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, derives 20 its regulatory mandate, responsibilities and obligations 21 from several pieces of legislation and policies, and 22 those are shown up on the board. They include the DIAND 23 Act, the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement, Canadian 24 Environmental Assessment Act, Federal Real Property and 25 Immovables Act, the Nunavut Water and Surface Rights 26 Tribunal Act, which is the act that water licenses are DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00451 1 issued under, the Nunavut Mine Site Reclamation Policy 2 and the Territorial Lands Act and Regulations. 3 Indian and Northern Affairs Canada has two roles in 4 the Meadowbank Gold Project: as an intervenor in the 5 environmental assessment process, and in a regulatory 6 capacity once the project has been approved to proceed 7 based on the environmental assessment. 8 We want to be sure that NIRB has the best available 9 information from us to perform its role and 10 responsibilities as outlined in the Nunavut Land Claims 11 Agreement. 12 We are also here to answer questions the Board or 13 the proponent has of us, as well as answering questions 14 that other intervenors, and most importantly, the 15 community may have with the permission of the Board. 16 After the final hearings, NIRB presents its report 17 to INAC Minister who has the task of reviewing the 18 report in conjunction with other ministers that have a 19 responsibility for authorizing the project to proceed. 20 If the project receives approval, INAC will 21 administer and enforce the terms and conditions of the 22 water license, as well as for the portion of the project 23 on land with surface rights held by the Crown. 24 The mine aspect of the proposed project is located 25 entirely on surface and subsurface Inuit-owned land 26 administered by the Kivalliq Inuit Association and DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00452 1 Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated. 2 Access to the site via all-weather or winter 3 haulage route lies partly on Crown land administered by 4 Indian and Northern Affairs Canada. 5 Storage and laydown facilities for the mine site 6 are located on municipal lands of the community of Baker 7 Lake. 8 INAC will hold security deposits for the water 9 license and for the reclamation of those parts of the 10 project on Crown land. 11 This presentation will present a summary of Indian 12 and Northern Affairs' adequacy review of the information 13 contained in Cumberland Resources Draft Environmental 14 Impact Statement and supporting documents, as was 15 requested by the Nunavut Impact Review Board of all 16 intervenors. As such, INAC has analyzed the issues in 17 the Draft Environmental Impact Statement that are within 18 its mandate. 19 INAC has committed to providing the necessary staff 20 and resources for the review of the project so that it 21 can help resolve any technical concerns to all parties' 22 satisfaction and to enable the proponent to move forward 23 in the environmental assessment. 24 In general, INAC has found that Cumberland 25 Resources' Draft Environmental Impact Statement 26 addressed most technical issues pertaining to DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00453 1 engineering and physical sciences; however, these design 2 issues are conceptual and are still in the project 3 planning stages. 4 Indian and Northern Affairs Canada found that 5 Cumberland's Draft Environmental Impact Statement 6 minimally presents and references their baseline data, 7 making a traceable and reproducible review of impacts 8 against the baseline conditions extremely difficult. 9 This is followed by insufficient analytical assessments 10 to allow Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, at this 11 time, to share Cumberland's confidence in their 12 assessment results. 13 These issues are that the data and analytical 14 assessments for key parts of the project are not 15 adequate. Lack of geotechnical data to share the 16 proponent's confidence in the stability of the tailings 17 impoundment dike. We feel there is insufficient geology 18 and mineralogy data to assess acid rock drainage and 19 metal leaching throughout the entire project site. 20 The Draft EIS had inadequate groundwater data 21 and/or analysis to support assumptions that seepage from 22 tailings impoundment was considered low and mitigation 23 is sufficient. There is also insufficient data based on 24 community consultation to share confidence in the 25 assessment of cumulative effects. 26 We will now move on to socio-economic deficiencies. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00454 1 Indian and Northern Affairs Canada's key concerns with 2 the socio-economic assessment and plan found in the 3 Draft Environmental Impact Statement are with the 4 spatial scale, that is being the exclusive focus on 5 Baker Lake, community consultation, methodology, the 6 planned primary mitigation and the monitoring tool used. 7 We feel there is insufficient baseline data and 8 discussion to support the rationale why Baker Lake 9 should be the exclusive community of focus and benefit 10 for the project to the exclusion of the other Kivalliq 11 communities. 12 The company has not demonstrated how the residents 13 of Baker Lake are more capable to gain and hold 14 employment over other Kivalliq communities. This 15 suggests that the selection of Baker Lake as a primary 16 community is a policy of the company, a rationale that 17 the company should discuss further. 18 Indian and Northern Affairs Canada is also 19 concerned that Cumberland has also not demonstrated the 20 full range of insight and interest from other 21 communities, stakeholders and vulnerable groups from 22 their community consultation process. 23 At this time, it is INAC's recommendation that 24 Cumberland Resources provide the information acquired in 25 their community consultation work and demonstrate how 26 this information or concern has been addressed in the DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00455 1 Draft Environmental Impact Statement. Specifically, the 2 company should provide all their detailed records from 3 the community involvement work. 4 Methodologies used to determine potential impacts 5 do not appear to take into account differing components 6 of the community, such as family status, age, gender, 7 previous wage employment or language capacity, et 8 cetera. These are significant variables that will 9 reflect the impact of the mine on the community, the 10 residents and the company's ability to mitigate those 11 impacts, both negative and positive. 12 Indian and Northern Affairs Canada recommends the 13 proponent review their methodology and these factors' 14 impacts upon valued socio-economic components. 15 Cumberland Resources proposes to use the Inuit 16 Impact and Benefit Agreement as the primary mitigation 17 and monitoring tool. The public is not privy to this 18 confidential document, nor its negotiation. 19 Cumberland Resources should explore other 20 socio-economic mitigation and monitoring instruments. 21 In doing so, the company can then demonstrate that a 22 proper mitigation plan and follow-up monitoring program 23 for maximization of benefits and minimization of 24 negative effects has been completed for review and 25 approval through NIRB's procedures. 26 It is Indian and Northern Affairs Canada's opinion DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00456 1 that the technical session held in Baker Lake on June 2 2nd and 3rd has been successful. But like the other 3 intervenors, we consider that a considerable amount of 4 information remains to be exchanged. 5 The value of the technical sessions has been the 6 face-to-face discussions regarding several issues. 7 These were the present scope of the project. There were 8 introductory and deeper discussions regarding the 9 primary technical issues and the offer by Cumberland 10 Resources to provide the technical reports to support 11 the positions taken by Cumberland Resources at the 12 technical meetings. 13 In effect, the technical meetings are viewed as a 14 first round of information requests. It is Indian and 15 Northern Affairs Canada's opinion that upon the 16 technical review of the project references, the 17 intervenors can either share Cumberland Resources' 18 confidence or can, through information exchanges, 19 clearly and independently assess the residual risks. 20 In conclusion, once the road application achieves 21 conformity, Indian and Northern Affairs, encouraged with 22 NIRB, that it is in the best interest to include the 23 all-weather road in the assessment so the final hearings 24 can address all components of the project. 25 Where all information may have been collected, in 26 conclusion, once the road application achieves DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00457 1 conformity, Indian and Northern Affairs, encouraged with 2 NIRB, that it is the best in the assessment so the final 3 hearings can address all components of the project. 4 Where all information may have been collected, 5 Indian and Northern Affairs has observed that the 6 information has not been provided nor properly 7 referenced, and as such, INAC's review has identified 8 some significant areas of weakness in the Draft 9 Environmental Impact Statement. 10 It is Indian and Northern Affairs' opinion that the 11 proponent has not provided sufficient baseline data, 12 and, therefore, has not demonstrated an adequate 13 assessment, mitigation, nor management in key areas. 14 Therefore, INAC recommends to NIRB that the required 15 information from the proponent be provided to all 16 intervenors and the public before the project's review 17 proceeds into final technical review. 18 Our submission to NIRB provides recommendations on 19 how the proponent can address deficiencies observed 20 during our review of the Draft Environmental Impact 21 Statement and its supporting documents. 22 This submission focuses on the information that is 23 necessary in the following key project areas: baseline 24 data necessary for construction of the tailings 25 impoundment area and dikes, acid-rock drainage and metal 26 leaching, potential deep groundwater contamination, DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00458 1 cumulative effects and socio-economic areas. 2 In order to conduct a thorough assessment of this 3 project, the proponent should submit information from 4 its studies and consultation activities to support its 5 baseline data and assessment justifications. 6 Now, it is my understanding you also wanted us to 7 address the nine points, and I will briefly touch on 8 those now. 9 With regard to NIRB's nine presentation topics with 10 regards to the schedule of the prehearing conference 11 exchange of information, if there is still to be a 12 substantial exchange of information between the 13 intervenors, proponent and NIRB, one suggestion is for a 14 revised Draft EIS to be submitted, complete with all 15 required information. 16 With regards to objective number 2, intervenor 17 identification and registration, and I believe we 18 captured that in slide number 2 with regards to our 19 legislative requirements. 20 Lists of issues to be dealt with at the final 21 public hearings and clear statements of the issues. At 22 this time, without reviewing Cumberland Resource's Final 23 EIS and participation at the technical and prehearing 24 conference, INAC is unable to provide further comments 25 on the technical issues related to the environmental 26 assessment of this project. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00459 1 We have submitted a technical adequacy review 2 assessment of Cumberland Resource's Draft Environmental 3 Impact Statements and supporting documents to NIRB. We 4 have also prepared this presentation to provide an 5 overview of the issues requiring more information. 6 Technical reports and other documents. In the 7 technical meeting, there was a substantial list of 8 reports and information identified along with our 9 written intervention and also our reply on that list of 10 110 commitments, so we feel all that information is 11 needed prior to the final public hearing. 12 With regards to the schedule to be followed by 13 parties for completion of reports, in view of the 14 substantial amount of information that we haven't been 15 privy to yet, and some is still being collected and 16 compiled, we can't really comment on that issue at this 17 time. 18 Schedule dates, times and places of the final 19 public hearing. We request that NIRB provide 20 intervenors with a minimum of 90 days to complete their 21 technical review following the receipt of a complete 22 Environmental Impact Statement from the proponent. 23 Should there be deficiencies in the information 24 submitted and an information request for supplemental 25 information be required, we suggest that the 90-day 26 review period not start until those deficiencies have DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00460 1 been addressed. We also suggest that NIRB set a final 2 submission cut-off date for all documents to be 3 reviewed. We request that the final submission deadline 4 should be a minimum of ten days prior to the final 5 public hearing. 6 We recommend that the final hearings occur in the 7 following Kivalliq communities, Baker Lake, Chesterfield 8 Inlet and Rankin Inlet. 9 Technical hearings should be undertaken in Baker 10 Lake, with nontechnical hearings occurring in the other 11 communities. 12 With regards to point number 7, we have no motions 13 at this time for special procedures. 14 And with regards to objective number 8, any motions 15 may be needed before the Final EIS, we have no 16 recommendations on that one. 17 Matna, thank you. 18 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any questions, 19 Cumberland? 20 CUMBERLAND COMMENTS ON INAC PRESENTATION 21 CRAIG GOODINGS: Yeah, maybe one comment 22 more than a question, if that's all right. 23 As I said before, the more eyes that look at this, 24 the better the project will be. Again, we appreciate 25 the effort you guys have put into reviewing the 26 documents, and also your consultants. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00461 1 And I know that when you receive this additional 2 baseline data, raw data, that you will be -- come to the 3 same conclusion that Golder has come to. 4 Regarding the socio-economic, we are following the 5 position of the KIA on this. This is KIA's land, they 6 own it, and they want to control the socio-economic 7 benefit process, and we will -- we back KIA on that, and 8 we hope you guys can too. 9 MIKE HINE: The concern we have with 10 the IIBA being your sole monitoring source is you have 11 other parties that are not party to the IIBA agreement, 12 such as the municipal corporation of the Hamlet of Baker 13 Lake, Government of Nunavut, RCMP, that sort of thing. 14 And how you incorporate those groups into your 15 monitoring program is critical, and I certainly see 16 probably the KIA person, the KIA monitor who is 17 monitoring the IIBA as part of that monitoring group, 18 but I don't -- I just can't see how the IIBA is the 19 monitoring agency. 20 CRAIG GOODINGS: I appreciate you have a 21 difference of opinion than the KIA has on this. But, 22 again, we are going to concede with KIA being the 23 landowner here. 24 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Any questions, 25 KIA, NTI? I'll let you go up. 26 LOCAL RESIDENTS MAKE GENERAL QUESTIONS DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00462 1 Q ELI KIMMALIAJUK: ... that I have to, it 2 seems that maybe we are going to, as for me anyway, the 3 question I have to if there -- if they join with people, 4 if they are in support of the road in the Keewatin. 5 The concern that I have is and the goods that we 6 have in Chesterfield are very expensive. And we have 7 been hearing for a number of years that there is 8 supposed to be building a road into Kivalliq region, and 9 we are getting tired of -- we are losing patience as the 10 goods coming into Kivalliq region are becoming very, 11 very expensive, and the prices are still rising. 12 And so we would like to hear, and also would you 13 also try and help move this along a little faster. If 14 that is not the work they are doing, if you are not 15 working on that. And it would be nice to hear that you 16 might be in support of the Kivalliq road coming from the 17 south for goods to be transported into Kivalliq as they 18 are becoming expensive. 19 A MIKE HINE: I realize it is not 20 necessarily part of the scope of this review, but Indian 21 and Northern Affairs is working in cooperation with the 22 Kivalliq Inuit Association and are currently undergoing 23 a -- they are currently doing a study on the feasibility 24 of a road from Manitoba to the Kivalliq region, so 25 that's the answer to the question. 26 As I said, it is not within the scope of this DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00463 1 hearing, but that's the answer to the question. There 2 is work being done on it, and Kivalliq Inuit Association 3 and Indian and Northern Affairs are partners on it. 4 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. KIA, NTI any 5 questions to INAC regarding the presentation? 6 LUIS MANZO: No questions, Mr. Chair. 7 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Department of 8 Fisheries and Oceans, any questions? 9 DERRICK MOGGY: No questions, Mr. Chair. 10 CHAIRPERSON: Natural Resources Canada? 11 ROB JOHNSTONE: No questions, Mr. Chair. 12 CHAIRPERSON: Hamlet of Chesterfield, any 13 questions to INAC? Thank you. Local residents, local 14 residents, any questions to Indian and Northern Affairs 15 Canada? Thank you. NIRB staff? Thank you. Board 16 members, any questions? Thank you for your 17 presentation. 18 Is there any other comments from the local 19 residents before I turn the floor over to Cumberland 20 Resources for a final closing statement regarding the 21 proposed mine? Any other comments regarding the 22 proposed mine? Bill? 23 BILL TILLEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I 24 am just watching the community to see if they had any 25 other comments, and I was waiting for that. If they do, 26 then you should hear them. If they don't, I just need DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00464 1 to deal with exhibits that we have had tabled today, and 2 so why don't I just do that at this point in time. I 3 have five that I have caught, and I will go to 4 Cumberland in just a minute and let them tell me how 5 they want to do their batch of presentations, but 6 Cumberland would be one of those that I would propose to 7 mark, I will ask Mr. Donihee in just a moment. 8 The second one would be KIA and NTI presentation, 9 the third one will be there is an NRCan letter that was 10 dated today and that was just received, and we just got 11 copied. The fourth would be there is a letter that 12 appeared by Marian Jackson that was given to Cumberland, 13 we should file that. And then the last one would be 14 INAC's presentation that we just received. 15 So it seems to me that we need to mark five 16 exhibits, but I will turn the time over to Mr. Donihee 17 and see how he would like to do their presentation in 18 one, or however he wants to do it, let's accept it that 19 way. 20 JOHN DONIHEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 21 With the exception of Mr. Goodings' presentation today, 22 they were no changes in the presentations -- my 23 understanding is there is no changes in any of the 24 presentations except for Mr. Goodings, which involves 25 some deletions of some of the slides that were there 26 yesterday to shorten it. So with the Board's DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00465 1 permission, we will burn a CD of that this evening and 2 give it to your staff first thing tomorrow, if we could 3 provide it then, that would be convenient. 4 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Bill? 5 BILL TILLEMAN: Okay, Mr. Chairman. Then 6 we will mark that as number 13, is then number 14 would 7 be KIA, NTI's presentation, and number 15 would be the 8 NRCan letter, which is hopefully being distributed to 9 parties right now, and that was received this afternoon. 10 And it is a summary, as I take it, of what they said 11 they would do yesterday and didn't have an opportunity 12 to speak to today. 13 Marian Jackson had delivered what I think is a 14 letter, but I didn't see a copy of it, and we should 15 file what was received to you, Mr. Donihee. So let's 16 file it in any event, and then number, whatever the next 17 number is is INAC's presentation, 17. 18 EXHIBIT 13: CD COPY OF PROPONENT 19 PRESENTATION FROM CHESTERFIELD INLET 20 EXHIBIT 14: KIA & NTI PRESENTATION 21 EXHIBIT 15: NRCAN LETTER REGARDING 22 LIST OF COMMITMENTS 23 EXHIBIT 16: MARIAN JACKSON LIST OF 24 QUESTIONS TO CUMBERLAND 25 EXHIBIT 17: INAC PRESENTATION 26 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, okay. Closing DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00466 1 statements? 2 CLOSING COMMENTS BY PROPONENT 3 CRAIG GOODINGS: I would just like to say 4 that I have really enjoyed today's session. I thought 5 the questions from the community were excellent. It 6 shows how much they care about the environment and also 7 how much they are aware of what's going on around them 8 and what mining is, so I am very heartened to hear those 9 questions, and I hope that we have managed to give a 10 good answer to most of them. 11 I know some people may be dissatisfied, especially 12 with the training answers; however, these things will 13 come along as we proceed through this review process and 14 things are set in stone a bit more. 15 So, again, I'm just really happy to be here, and I 16 just really enjoyed today's sessions, and I appreciate 17 the questions. Thank you. 18 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. We will do the 19 door prize now. 20 I would like to thank the people of Chesterfield 21 Inlet for their hospitality and concerns regarding the 22 proposed mines. Your points are well taken, and we , 23 the Board and staff thank you for coming to the 24 preliminary hearing conference. 25 I would like to thank the interpreters, the staff 26 and the catering. Thank you. DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00467 1 I would like to close with a closing prayer. 2 Peter? 3 PETER PANEAK: (Closing prayer) 4 (HEARING ADJOURNED AT 4:16 P.M., JUNE 8, 2005) 5 6 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPT 7 I, TARA LUTZ, hereby certify that the 8 foregoing pages are a true and faithful transcript 9 of the proceedings taken down by me in shorthand and 10 transcribed from my shorthand notes to the best of my 11 skill and ability. 12 Dated at the City of Edmonton, Province of 13 Alberta, this 14th day of June, A.D. 2005. 14 15 16 17 18 19 Tara Lutz 20 Court Reporter 21 22 23 24 25 26 DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590 00468 1 INDEX OF EXHIBITS 2 EXHIBIT 13: CD COPY OF PROPONENT 465:18 3 PRESENTATION FROM CHESTERFIELD INLET 4 5 EXHIBIT 14: KIA & NTI PRESENTATION 465:20 6 7 EXHIBIT 15: NRCAN LETTER REGARDING LIST 465:21 8 OF COMMITMENTS 9 10 EXHIBIT 16: MARIAN JACKSON LIST OF 465:23 11 QUESTIONS TO CUMBERLAND 12 13 EXHIBIT 17: INAC PRESENTATION 465:25 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 DICTA COURT REPORTING 403-531-0590