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6 NUNAVUT WATER BOARD HEARING

7

8 RE: CITY OF IQALUIT WATER LICENSE

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15 _______________________________________________________

16 HEARING HELD AT THE NAVIGATOR INN HOTEL

17 IQALUIT, NUNAVUT

18 MARCH 9, 2006

19 VOLUME IV

20 _______________________________________________________

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395

1 APPEARANCES:

2

3 HEARING BOARD:

4 Mr. L. Toomasie Chairman

Mr. G. Porter Member

5 Mr. G. Kakkiarniun Member

Mr. R. Kayarsark Member

6 Mr. T. Kabloona Member

7 WATER BOARD STAFF:

8 Mr. W.A. Tilleman , QC Legal Counsel

Philippe di Pizzo Executive Director, Chief of

9 Administration

Phyllis Bealieau Licensing Administrator

10 Ben Kogvik Interpreter/ Translater

Joe Murdock Technical Advisor

11 David Hohnstein Technical Advisor

Richard Dwyer Licensee

12 Dionne Filiatrault Director of Technical Services

13 APPLICANT:

14 City of Iqaluit

15 INTERVENORS :

16 Department of Indian and Northern Affairs

Environment Canada

17 Department of Environment

Fisheries and Oceans Canada

18 Government of Nunavut

Bill MacKenzie Humanitarian Society

19

20 INTERPRETERS:

21 Isa Boaz Inuktitut Language

Jose Arreat Inuktitut Language

22

Jimmy Ekho Sound Technician

23 Tommy Kullualik Sound Technician

24 Diane Hermann, RPR Court Reporter

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26

396

1 I N D E X

2 Page

3 General Comments................................397

4 Presentation by DFO on the Sewage & Effluent....398

Treatment Facility, and Closing Statement

5

Comments by the City of Iqaluit.................402

6

Presentation by Bill MacKenzie Humanitarian.....404

7 Humanitarian Society, and Closing Statement

8 Comments by DIAND on the Bill MacKenzie.........427

Humanitarian Society Presentation

9

Comments by the Water Board Staff...............436

10

Presentation by Siuling Han.....................442

11

Comments by the Water Board Staff on the........453

12 Han Presentation

13 General Comments................................456

14 Closing Statement by the City of Iqaluit........460

15 Comments by DIAND re: Land Ownership............462

16 Comments by the City of Iqaluit re:.............466

Land Ownership

17

Comments by DIAND re: Land Ownership............468

18

Mr. Daw Questions DIAND .........................469

19

Comments by the City of Iqaluit re:.............471

20 Land Ownership

21 General Comments................................472

22 Closing Statement by the Nunavut Water Board....474

23 General Comments................................475

24 Certificate of Reporter.........................478

25 Exhibits........................................479

26

397

1 (PROCEEDINGS COMMENCED AT 10:00 A.M.)

2 GENERAL COMMENTS:

3 THE CHAIRMAN: We have to proceed with the public

4 hearing as a part of our continuation from last night.

5 THE INTERPRETER: Can you hear me? Testing one, two.

6 Hello, hello, hello? Can anybody hear me? No, okay.

7 THE CHAIRMAN: We need to proceed with the

8 continuation of the meeting from last night's public

9 hearing, so as we proceed -- can you hear me?

10 We will, as I said, we will continue from the

11 public hearing session from last night. I'd like to

12 welcome each and every one of you. The applicants

13 group, intervenors , everybody, and the general public,

14 I'd like to welcome each and every one of you here for

15 this public session. As we start, as we commence, I

16 would like to start the meeting with a prayer, please,

17 at this time, so rise, stand up.

18 (PRAYER)

19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Last night, we didn't

20 finish our agenda last night, so before we start, is

21 there any housekeeping item to be dealt with before we

22 start?

23 Okay, Bill.

24 MR . TILLEMAN : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's Bill

25 Tilleman .

26 And one that I know of for sure is there's one

398

1 correction that Environment Canada wishes to make, and

2 so if we could turn the mike over to Anne Wilson and

3 have her come up and make that. Thank you, sir.

4 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead, Anne.

5 MS. WILSON: Good morning. I'm Anne Wilson with

6 Environment Canada, and I would like to correct a

7 statement I made last night, that the pollution

8 prevention planning for ammonia applies to the City of

9 Iqaluit. I was giving the city a promotion to 12,000

10 in population. That's approximately the point at which

11 those guidelines will apply. So, they do not apply at

12 this time. Thank you.

13 MR . CHAIRMAN: Any more item to be dealt with?

14 MR . TILLEMAN : No.

15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Okay, let's start with

16 DFO 's presentation. They were to have their comments,

17 so at this time proceed with your presentation.

18 PRESENTATION BY DFO ON THE SEWAGE & EFFLUENT TREATMENT

19 FACILITY, AND CLOSING STATEMENT:

20 MS. GORDANIER : Thank you very much. This is Tanya

21 Gordanier from Fisheries and Oceans.

22 If I may, I would like to start by reporting back

23 on a couple of questions that were posed by Water Board

24 staff yesterday relating to the solid waste disposal

25 facilities, and I had committed to double-checking on

26 my answers. We'd like to report back.

399

1 The first issue was whether there had been any

2 violations or investigations under the Fisheries Act at

3 the solid waste facility, and I have confirmed with our

4 enforcement staff that there have not been any that

5 we're aware of. However, our officers have been on

6 site in the past to assist inspections conducted by

7 Indian and Northern Affairs Canada.

8 On the topic of whether the issues we had brought

9 forward, an information request, had been resolved, I

10 have conferred with my colleague Derek Moggy , and he

11 has confirmed that, yes, they have been resolved.

12 So, with those updates done, I move on to the

13 topic at hand, which is the sewage and effluent

14 treatment facilities. We had not originally intervened

15 on this topic, given that most of the issues are water

16 quality related and, as I'd stated, we defer to

17 Environment Canada on these issues; however, in light

18 of some of the discussions yesterday, I have put

19 together a couple of slides. And I must admit that I'm

20 a bit hesitant to wade into these discussions since

21 they are primarily water quality related; however, to

22 support some of the recommendations made by Environment

23 Canada yesterday, I feel somewhat compelled to wade in

24 a bit into these discussions.

25 So, the City had stated yesterday on a couple of

26 occasions that they will not be in compliance with

400

1 subsection 36.3 of the Fisheries Act. For the benefit

2 of those in the audience or on the Board or in the room

3 who aren't familiar with this section, it's a direct

4 prohibition against depositing a deleterious substance

5 into fish-frequented waters. It's just, you can't do

6 it. There's no permit or license or authorisation that

7 will allow this activity; it's just a direct

8 prohibition. The only way it can be approved, if I

9 could call it that, is through a regulation, and

10 there's currently no regulation in existence that would

11 allow for this type of deposit.

12 That being said, DFO recognises and applauds the

13 applicant for the work that they have done thus far to

14 improve the sewage treatment capabilities within the

15 city. However, we are quite concerned that the City

16 has made no further commitments to bring phase two of

17 the sewage treatment facility to fruition, and

18 therefore to bring themselves into compliance with the

19 Fisheries Act. DFO would suggest that the City does

20 need to make a stronger commitment to work towards the

21 implementation of phase two, and as I've mentioned, and

22 therefore towards compliance with the Fisheries Act.

23 We therefore recommend that the City commit to the

24 creation of a plan for how to proceed with the

25 development of phase two of the sewage treatment plan

26 -- plant, pardon me, and this plan could include time

401

1 lines for construction and perhaps identification of

2 potential funding sources for how this, this project

3 could be completed. And we would suggest that this

4 plan should be done within three months of the issuance

5 of a water license, should it be granted.

6 I would also like to suggest that the City target

7 or aim, at least, towards having construction of the

8 facility, that's phase two of the sewage treatment

9 plant, by the end of the license term as a target.

10 So that's about it for my comments relative to

11 sewage and -- the sewage and effluent treatment

12 facilities.

13 Before we move on to questions and comments, I

14 understand that the intervenors have been asked to do

15 their closing remarks, so I'll just deal with those

16 verbally, and I would like to thank the Board for the

17 opportunity to intervene on the City of Iqaluit water

18 license. Over the course of the hearings, we have made

19 a few suggestions and recommendations for the

20 consideration of the Board in their deliberations, and

21 we hope that these have been heard by the City for

22 their consideration while contemplating future

23 development of the city infrastructure. We hope that

24 the Board and the City will find these comments

25 helpful, and we would like to commit to providing any

26 other help or expertise that we are able to in order to

402

1 further assist the City or the Board. Thank you very

2 much.

3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, DFO .

4 Open the floor for questions, start with the

5 applicants. Do you have a question to the presentation

6 of DFO ?

7 COMMENTS BY THE CITY OF IQALUIT:

8 MR . HALL: Good morning, Mr. Chair, members of

9 the Board. Mike Hall for the City of Iqaluit.

10 We appreciate the comments and suggestions by

11 Fisheries and Oceans Canada, and I think we'd like to

12 reiterate that the City is certainly more than keen, in

13 fact, to proceed with phase two of the sewage treatment

14 plant, but that the issue is entirely dependent on the

15 availability of funding and funding sources for which

16 we don't have determination at this time.

17 We would respectfully request of the Board in

18 considering the suggestion of a three-month period for

19 the development of a plan, most respectfully, to be

20 impractical. We have detailed discussions and

21 negotiations with upper tier government and other

22 funding sources which, from experience, will take

23 considerably more than three months.

24 We simply do not have $10 million available to us

25 in the foreseeable future. The City is committed to

26 working towards phase two, including work -- including,

403

1 if possible, the locating of suitable funding sources

2 and proceeding with this project. But again, most

3 respectfully, three months, I think, is simply beyond

4 the realm of possibility at this time. Thank you.

5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, applicants.

6 DFO ?

7 MS. GORDANIER : Tanya Gordanier here.

8 And I appreciate the dilemma. Do you -- I guess

9 I'm open for suggestions on when you think a plan might

10 be able to be developed. I threw three months out

11 there, but, you know, could you provide some

12 suggestions, ideas, on how long it might take to come

13 up with such a plan?

14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

15 Applicant?

16 MR . HALL: Mark Hall, City of Iqaluit.

17 If it would please the Board, we could commit --

18 at this time the City could commit to providing an

19 update, a briefing update to the Board within a period

20 of six months as to our efforts detailing otherwise to

21 try and locate the sum of $10 million to commence the

22 preparations for phase two of this plant. It's not a

23 firm commitment, obviously, to proceed, but it would

24 update the Board and the regulators as to our efforts

25 to find these funds to proceed with this project.

26 Thank you.

404

1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

2 DFO ?

3 MS. GORDANIER : Tanya Gordanier , Fisheries and

4 Oceans, and that would be acceptable to us.

5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

6 Again, open the floor for questions from

7 interested parties. Is there any question from

8 interested parties? Thank you. Is there any question

9 from other interested parties? Once again, thank you.

10 Is there any question from Water Board staff?

11 MS. FILIATRAULT : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have no

12 questions, but I would request that we get a copy of

13 the slides that were presented, and we can mark that

14 as, I think it's Exhibit 20 -- 19. Thank you,

15 Mr. Chair.

16 EXHIBIT 19:

17 DFO PRESENTATION, ELECTRONIC COPY

18 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, DFO .

19 MS. GORDANIER : Thank you very much.

20 THE CHAIRMAN: Next presentation will be from Bill

21 MacKenzie Humanitarian Society, Jim Little. Please

22 come forward to the table for your presentation.

23 PRESENTATION BY BILL MACKENZIE HUMANITARIAN SOCIETY,

24 AND CLOSING STATEMENT

25 MR . LITTLE: Jim Little speaking, good morning.

26 Before I start, I would -- I want to make note

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1 that I have reworked the slide presentation that I have

2 for today, and the exhibit or the CD that I submitted

3 yesterday for today's presentation really is -- it's

4 been changed considerably, so I'll make the new disk

5 available to the Board after this is complete.

6 Well, you know, I regret taking so much of the

7 Board's time yesterday with that presentation on the --

8 when composting solid waste, especially in light of

9 Mr. Johnson's comments that possibly there isn't a

10 leachate problem or a methane problem regarding the

11 disposal of organic waste in the landfill.

12 Nevertheless, it does represent a considerable savings,

13 and any money that the City does save could probably be

14 spent on other initiatives that would address our

15 environment.

16 Okay. This is the same as yesterday, but I'm

17 going to skip through a lot of it. I reworked it,

18 here.

19 After hearing everybody yesterday, some solutions

20 that I think that we can address here that came up

21 yesterday I've listed here. We have to assume that the

22 phase two isn't going to be built right away, but the

23 question raised is there: How are we going to treat

24 the effluent from the solid waste facility if the phase

25 two plant isn't built?

26 Also, the sludge trailer, I believe, is going to

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1 be a constant headache for the City for years to come,

2 and it's going to be an ongoing expense. It will be

3 worked into the system, but nonetheless, it's an

4 expense that doesn't need to be there, and I think we

5 can improve that system considerably.

6 And also, we can, we can utilise the freeze-thaw

7 technology for a population. We can build a

8 freeze-thaw technology here for 12,000 people without

9 using a huge area like they're proposing at area A.

10 Also, I believe that what I'm going to propose

11 will reduce any concern that the population may have of

12 transporting the sewage sludge through the city in the

13 inevitable time when we have a new landfill. We won't

14 have to transport the trailer through the city. And I

15 believe that we can economically, really economically,

16 produce a class A compost out of -- from our sewage

17 sludge that will benefit the community. And I think

18 the City, again, is on the right track, but they are --

19 they're not removing it from the waste stream. They're

20 just, you know, going to use it for a landfill cover.

21 And I'm also going to propose a means that we can

22 economically decommission or restore for backup the

23 sewage lagoon. And I think that also what I'm going to

24 say here is going to have a significant O & M cost

25 savings for the new plant, for phase two, when it

26 actually is built.

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1 So again, I'm using Dr. McCartney at the

2 University of Alberta and Dr. Martel . He's retired

3 from the -- research scientist, and these documents and

4 others that were provided through the City and other

5 sources.

6 I'm going to skip through this.

7 Anyway, this is, this is phase two after it's

8 complete, and the only reason I left this in is because

9 I want, I want to make a point here that man made

10 technology frequently breaks down, but nature's

11 technology works forever. And I think I commend Earth

12 Tech for suggesting this method to restore the old

13 white elephant of a sewage treatment plant by

14 suggesting that we use activated sludge because it's

15 actually using nature, a natural process, microbes,

16 again, where they eat the sludge and destroy the

17 pathogens and that sort of thing. So, it's a natural

18 process that we are engineering, and I think it's

19 certainly a step in the right direction. Anyway, I

20 won't -- I'll -- I'm not going to waste any time, here.

21 Now, this is a -- this is more information. It

22 doesn't mean an awful lot to me, other than for 6500

23 people, we're going to be producing 2600 cubic metres

24 of waste every day. That's waste water. That's what's

25 going into the plant, and that -- I got that

26 information from that line right there: Phase one,

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1 we've got 3200 cubic metres a day going into the plant.

2 So, that's based on 8,000 people. So I used ratio

3 proportion to reduce that down, so now we've got 2600

4 cubic metres of waste water going into the plant. But

5 until we commission the plant, that was going into the

6 lagoon, and at that point -- I'll make more of that

7 later on here.

8 Again, here, this is just -- this is much -- this

9 was information that I was trying to gather for a more

10 detailed technical presentation, which I've backed off

11 of.

12 Again, I've reduced the weight down here. We've

13 got 483 tonnes of sewage sludge a year and 156 trailer

14 loads a year that we are going to capture from the --

15 in the headworks building, but the rest of it is going

16 to the bay directly via pipeline with no particular

17 treatment, as treatment being pathogen reduction and

18 pathogen kills.

19 So, now we've got our -- what is going to be --

20 I'm sure there's going to be lots of nicknames for this

21 around the community, but that's our sludge disposal

22 system. And if any of you folks lived in Iqaluit or in

23 the communities when they used the Honey Bag system, I

24 don't see this as a great improvement, personally. I

25 don't see we've -- we haven't gone too much further

26 ahead with our thinking here. 156 loads per year at

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1 our current population with only phase one.

2 Okay. So really, our treatment plant here, this

3 part here isn't built, of course. This was the old

4 part which was built a few years ago, and this is our

5 new headworks . So really, basically, all we've got

6 here is water going in and filtered, screenings and

7 grit here, and then filtered here, and this sludge and

8 screenings and grit dropped to that wagon down below,

9 that's the ground floor wagon, and they're hauled out

10 of there every couple of days, I guess. And then the

11 waste water, there's new pipeline that's been installed

12 underground here, and it goes under here and it goes

13 over here to a manhole, and then from there it goes

14 directly into the bay. Now, feel free to correct me if

15 I'm saying something that's wrong.

16 The only reason I want to bring this slide up is

17 because there's -- this right here is a pipeline that

18 was going to deliver the effluent, the treated effluent

19 from this part of the building into the bay. It has

20 since been abandoned. Now, I don't know if it's been

21 removed or not. I hope it hasn't because it's

22 certainly going to work into this plan later on.

23 Okay. Now, I'm -- look, I hope I don't hurt

24 anybody's feelings here, but we spent $4.5 million, and

25 all we got is a filter. We're going to filter out some

26 of the sludge from the waste water. And we've got a

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1 pipeline now that will automatically deliver the waste

2 water, the untreated somewhat filtered waste water

3 directly to the bay. And if we want to open a couple

4 of valves, we can deliver it all to the bay. We can

5 bypass that filter very simply by two valves, that's

6 all we have do, and every bit of the waste water will

7 go directly to the bay and bypass the filter. But we

8 have created a new job. I don't know who's going to

9 want it. We're going to have to pay them a lot of

10 money, but they're going to have to because that

11 trailer is going to be -- it's going to have to be well

12 looked after because it's performing a very critical

13 task.

14 Now, I'm not going to go through all these. These

15 are problems with the honey wagon. And my -- look,

16 I've been up here, I've seen garage doors open to a

17 moist environment in a cold temperature, and I've seen

18 plumes of fog, and I can see that happening over at

19 this sewage treatment plant when they try to back that

20 trailer in there. And the first thing you know,

21 they're going to be, they're going to be ramming the

22 trailer up against the side of the door frame and the

23 tailgate on that trailer is going to be -- you know,

24 there's going to be a mad job at the maintenance garage

25 to fix it, and everybody's going to get off sick that

26 day 'cause they're not going to want to go near that

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1 wagon. But nonetheless, it's a job that's going to --

2 we can't go on the radio and say, "Hey, don't flush

3 your toilets now, here, until we get this thing fixed."

4 That's not going to happen. And the same thing with

5 the weather. We're going to be tying up all kinds of

6 assets keeping the road open.

7 There's all kinds of problems, and I'm not going

8 to go through them, but, you know, I believe this is a,

9 -- it's going to be a nightmare for the City. It's

10 going to be a nightmare for the administration to keep

11 the thing staffed, keep the job filled.

12 Anyway, there, here we go. Now, this, this

13 particular piece of ground, if we build a freeze-thaw

14 bed, and if we're going to be prudent, we have to build

15 it in such a way that we're going to accommodate all of

16 our sludge in the foreseeable future. We've got a

17 sewage treatment plant that's designed for 12,000

18 people, so we need to design the freeze-thaw bed for

19 12,000 people. So according to my consultant, that's

20 1.5 acres at a 1.08 metre depth. Now that's, again,

21 that's -- I'm trusting this guy to provide accurate

22 information. That's going to take a big land area

23 here, and we don't need to use that much land. I'm

24 going to show you very soon how we can reduce the size

25 of that footprint.

26 What I'd like to put on area A is this. I'd like

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1 to put one of these buildings that we can do all the

2 composting in, in one build, do all the municipal

3 composting and all the organic sludge composting, and

4 all we need it this. Now, that loader, front-end thing

5 on the front end of here that's going to shred up the

6 stuff and blend it, is a great additive and a great

7 additive piece of equipment, and I heartily support it.

8 It's not necessary for blending this, but it is

9 necessary for shredding the cardboard.

10 Here is a -- I scanned this in last night from my

11 consultant. This is a typical freeze-thaw bed. We

12 don't need to build it below grade, certainly, but we

13 do need to be able to get inside of it with a loader,

14 and the loader will clean it out. And interestingly,

15 there are -- if you put in -- usually the sludge that

16 goes into this is -- will flow in a pipe. So we have

17 to alter the -- with an altered moisture content which

18 will alter the volumes out slightly, you can put in a

19 metre -- this is an example of an Alaska freeze-thaw

20 bed. If you put in a metre of sewage sludge, over the

21 process of the drying process you end up with 13

22 centimetres . So you're going from yea to yea over the

23 period of the summer, and it's a simple process that

24 requires no machinery, no equipment, no energy, and no

25 maintenance. You don't need a high-trained personnel

26 on staff to run this. It's a very simple, simple

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1 process.

2 So what I'm proposing here is we put the

3 freeze-thaw bed next to the existing land -- to the

4 existing building. Now, there's a lot of advantages to

5 this. Now, you seen this, I put this in here, it's 1.5

6 acres. But this freeze-thaw bed is certainly not 1.5

7 acres. Now, the configuration of this could change

8 significantly. We need to be able to get into it with

9 a truck, so maybe it's going to go out this way, maybe

10 it's going to be -- I don't know how it's going to be

11 designed, but anyway -- so, I want to go through this

12 here.

13 Okay. By doing this, I'm going to show you how we

14 can get rid of that trailer for hauling sludge. We

15 will need it for hauling the screenings and grit 'cause

16 screenings and grit are still going to be a problem,

17 and you don't want them going through a pipe, you don't

18 want them going through -- you don't want them in the

19 compost, for one thing. If you want to produce a class

20 A compost, you don't want to dig around and find

21 hypodermic needles or God knows what people flush down

22 their toilets. You just don't want to find that stuff

23 there. So, the trailer now, instead of emptying that

24 every day or two it's once a month, and the stuff that

25 needs to be dumped to the landfill is -- truly needs to

26 go to the landfill because it has no real value.

414

1 Okay. So, we're going to -- again, this

2 freeze-thaw bed will be sized for 12,000 people, just

3 like the rest of the plant is sized to deal with 12,000

4 people.

5 Okay. And the sludge, now instead of being

6 removed every second day, we only get in there once a

7 year over a two-week period. We tie up a loader for

8 two weeks at the end of September, middle of September,

9 with a dump truck and a loader, and we get in there and

10 we fill it and take that stuff out of there. Now, this

11 stuff is dewatered , and it basically has very little

12 odour at this point. And you can take that stuff, it's

13 got about a point -- it's got 24 percent solids, which

14 is extremely low. And you -- that fits into the

15 criteria for safe disposal of sewage sludge in the

16 landfill. It's considered to be stabilised and

17 dewatered , and you can do it within a lot of --

18 within -- I don't know about the guidelines, but I do

19 know the manuals that are taught at the University of

20 Alberta describes the moisture content, and this

21 process reaches that. So we be would not breaching any

22 different -- any, anything that the rest of Canada is,

23 is promoting by doing this.

24 Now, the optimum benefit is this stabilised and

25 dewatered sludge now presents itself for economic

26 composting. Now, I just want to review that very

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1 quickly. For composting in the Arctic, the municipal

2 stuff, it's a storage problem. What reduces our labour

3 cost to about one-quarter of the south is the fact that

4 everything is frozen. Well, everything is in a

5 freeze-thaw bed here all winter. We don't have to deal

6 with that sludge on a -- every second day, which the

7 City is going to do. But if it's in here, all of a

8 sudden we have to put it -- start the composting

9 process at one time and do it for a period of two or

10 three months. I don't want to take a lot of time

11 explaining this, but I'd certainly like to explain it

12 to the City, the process and the time sequencing of

13 this.

14 Okay. And also, this is going to optimise or make

15 economical the disposal of the sludge in the landfill,

16 if the City should choose to do that. Either way, this

17 is certainly the answer. And I believe that by

18 containing the site -- containing the sludge on the

19 site, not pushing out our waste into the community into

20 another spot, will -- certainly will get a lot of

21 public acceptance.

22 So, what do we have to do here? Now, this is

23 inside the headworks plant. This big pipe here is

24 where the screenings and grit, there's about 50

25 kilograms a day for 8,000 people that they figure is

26 going to be dropped through that pipe down into the

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1 wagon on the second floor. You'd think it would be the

2 other way around because there's a lot more volume

3 coming out of this. This is the filter where the,

4 the -- some Norweigian or Swedish machine came from.

5 The screenings , the sludge, comes out of this through

6 this pipe, which is a double-walled pipe. The moisture

7 through, I think it's an auger sort of system, pushes

8 the sludge out this way and squeezes the water, and the

9 water passes down through this pipe. Now, what I'm

10 suggesting is that we remove this and we install a

11 pipe, a horizontal pipe that's sloped, and we put a

12 valve in that line there.

13 Now, I checked with the people. I talked to the

14 person that supplied this filter, the Canadian

15 supplier, I think it's Ian Middleton in Calgary, that

16 is -- he's -- I asked him right out. I said, can we

17 adjust the moisture content of this sewage sludge

18 coming out of this thing so it will flow in a pipe? If

19 we can get it to flow in a pipe, we're going to reduce

20 all this manpower and the trailer. He said, well, not

21 a problem. He said you restrict the water flow -- I'm

22 stuck here. You restrict the water flow in that pipe.

23 So maybe there's a little more to it, but it seems to

24 me all you have to do in this -- again, this is --

25 needs to be confirmed, is to put a valve on this so

26 that the water is not allowed to exit the pipe, but it

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1 must be -- proceed through here and come out with the

2 sludge.

3 Now, really, I can't quote the guy word for word,

4 but he told me that there would be probably an

5 increased life expectancy for this whole machine if we

6 were going to do that, and it's -- the engineering is

7 not going to be significant.

8 So where is the pipeline going to go, here? Well,

9 it's going to go where -- there is where the filter is

10 sitting right here. So we're going to run the pipeline

11 right from here -- whoops, what happened? I want to go

12 back. Pardon me, folks.

13 Anyway, we're going to bring the filter -- the

14 pipeline from here right through, and it can stay

15 inside the building, and it can come out so that the

16 stuff is distributed in a liquid in layers here, like

17 three or four inches at a time and it's allowed to

18 build up, because this is how the technology works. So

19 that's simply done.

20 So we're going to direct the effluent from the

21 headworks . Okay. How are we going to reduce the size

22 of the freeze-thaw bed? We're going to increase the

23 heat underneath the freeze-thaw bed by installing

24 in-floor heating, and we're going to do that, again,

25 all by gravity and all at no energy cost, simply by

26 installing -- this thing is not working very good -- a

418

1 pipe working on a siphon system, nothing more than

2 that, to bring the effluent from the headworks -- out

3 of that filter there's two pipes. One's got the sludge

4 and the other has got the effluent. That drops down

5 into these cement channels which eventually is going to

6 go into here. But now it's going through this pipeline

7 outside. Well, it would be simple enough to tie in a

8 pipeline here and bring that pipeline over, down inside

9 the freeze-thaw bed, like in-floor heating, and have it

10 all on grade, and then come over into the plant and

11 hook onto that pipe that was abandoned that delivers

12 the effluent to the ocean. It's just a redirecting of

13 what we already have, and it will save us

14 significantly.

15 We're going to use gravity to do this, and the

16 heat that is in here -- the temperature of the effluent

17 coming into this building was taken. Where the trucks

18 deposit their sludge it was -- the example I have, it

19 was 35 below outside and the effluent was 13 to 15

20 degrees Celsius. So the summertime -- this is the only

21 time we need to do this is in the summertime. The

22 temperature will be a lot higher. And that will be a

23 continuous daily basis, just on a flow through with no

24 energy requirement. It's going to produce a lot of

25 heat. It's going to thaw out this sludge a lot

26 quicker, and we're going to be able to double the --

419

1 reduce the footprint and double the height.

2 We do much the same when the phase two is built,

3 except the effluent this time would come out off the

4 top of these clarifier tanks, and it would go into the

5 -- underneath the freeze-thaw beds and then, again,

6 through that pipeline out to the bay.

7 So the benefits are, we're going to eliminate the

8 sludge trailer and all the associated problems. We're

9 going to eliminate -- now this is important. We're

10 going to eliminate the belt filter.

11 In this room here above that wagon, Earth Tech is

12 recommending a belt filter. A belt filter is a

13 dewatering machine that's going to take the water out

14 of sludge. If you can get 20 percent solids in that,

15 you're doing good. It takes -- it's a very -- it's a

16 capital expense. It's a huge expense. I would guess,

17 and I'm -- this is just a guess, that it would be at

18 least a half a million dollars, that piece of

19 machinery. It's going to require a tremendous amount

20 of energy to operate it. It's going to require

21 skilled personnel to maintain it and to keep it

22 working, but we can eliminate that completely by

23 installing a freeze-thaw bed.

24 Now, we do have to add a few things, here. There

25 are a few changes that have to be made, but it is going

26 to reduce the O & M costs. And the other benefit is,

420

1 there's not going to be any offsite odour . This may

2 get significant in here, but it's going to be inside

3 the building, inside. There's going to be a roof over

4 this, like, a simple structure, like a coverall

5 building.

6 What we need -- what is required here is what they

7 call -- I don't -- I haven't got two clues what this

8 is. It's called a floatation thickener. It's

9 something in here that's making the sludge a little

10 more thick before it's discharged from the -- and the,

11 the secondary -- these clarifier tanks may have to be

12 made a little bit larger to handle the sludge, to hold

13 the sludge during the thawing process. And the --

14 what's that other one there? Change the heat pipes.

15 I'm not sure what I meant there. Oh, yeah, the heat

16 pipes for the in-floor heating.

17 So, the benefits are here, we don't need a honey

18 wagon any more. The only time we need a honey wagon is

19 maybe once a month to haul the screenings and grit.

20 That's it. No more trailers going through town, no

21 more sloshing or threats for the environment, anything.

22 Reduced O & M costs for the waste water treatment plant

23 and at the landfill, 'cause disposing of this sludge at

24 the landfill is going to be a problem over there, too.

25 There's going to be a lot of grumbling over there when

26 we're starting dealing with this stuff in the

421

1 summertime, I tell you. And one site fits all. Why

2 not keep everything on one site? We keep expanding

3 the stuff out. We're talking about a freeze-thaw bed

4 out on area A, and the landfill is only going to last

5 for a few more years, so what are we doing? Are we

6 going to abandon that? Anyway, if we can keep

7 everything at the one site, it's a major step forward.

8 Okay. So the initiatives are economical to

9 composting or landfilling , whatever we choose. And the

10 neat part of this process -- and I should go back to

11 the slide -- is we can start decommissioning the

12 lagoon. You see, we build -- you build the freeze-thaw

13 bed to accommodate 12,000 people; the same as the

14 plant, it's built for 12,000 people. But we got all

15 this extra space in that freeze-thaw bed until we reach

16 a population, so what are we going to do with it? And,

17 you know, so we can start pumping the sludge out of the

18 bottom of that lagoon. This is why I was asking these

19 questions yesterday about the -- about how it -- what

20 if we remove some of that sludge, wouldn't that make

21 the landfill -- or wouldn't that make the lagoon more

22 advantageous?

23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, Jim, take a short break. The

24 machine here is not working.

25 Okay, Jim, you can continue now. The machine is

26 working now.

422

1 MR . LITTLE: All right. You know, even if we

2 can't recondition the lagoon, we can start the

3 decommissioning process where we can actually utilise

4 the extra space in the freeze-thaw bed to start, start

5 cleaning up the lagoon. But the nice part of it is,

6 is, if we do have the lagoon up until, you know --

7 cleaned up somewhat, we can still use the lagoon to, to

8 treat the effluent from the solid waste facility.

9 Whoops, whoops. How do I go back? I want to go

10 back. I apologise . Really, I'm not very good at this

11 stuff.

12 All right. In conclusion here, before I go away,

13 we would recommend the composting of both municipal and

14 organic waste -- both the municipal organic waste and

15 the biosolids into a class A product. It's not going

16 to -- not only save the City money, but it will save

17 landfill space and, equally important, it will benefit

18 the community at large.

19 One comment here: The composting effort at the

20 landfill with this sludge is depending on a carbon

21 component out of the waste stream. And there, you

22 know, they're going to use -- it's full of carbon, but

23 it's full of other contaminated material, too. There's

24 glass in there. There's all kinds of things in that.

25 Of course, the sludge itself has screenings and grit in

26 it, so it's not so healthy either. But the point is,

423

1 if we can remove the screenings and grit from the

2 headworks , we can quite simply provide a very clean,

3 steady carbon source from our waste stream before it

4 even gets to the landfill, and that's cardboard.

5 There's, I would say, an equal amount of carbon

6 that's being produced at our landfill and baled up,

7 packaged up for us at north mart. Bales and bales of

8 that stuff, it goes to the landfill. It's worth, it's

9 worth -- I think it's well over a hundred thousand

10 dollars if we could get it out to a recycling facility

11 in the south, because it's a valuable commodity, and

12 we're taking it to the landfill because we can't ship

13 it out. But if we had one of these add-on things, we

14 could run it through that shredder, and that could

15 become our carbon source. And it doesn't even need to

16 go to the landfill.

17 So, we could easily produce a class A compost.

18 Composting biosolids is easier than composting the

19 municipal organics , and I'm not going to spend a lot of

20 time saying that or why, but it's a fact.

21 Okay. We recommend the operational design changes

22 to increase the freeze-thaw efficiency and lower the O

23 & M costs for the entire waste water treatment plant.

24 Now, I was going to delete this here, but I

25 couldn't after the thing was printed, but I know where

26 there's $65,000, and the federal government would just

424

1 love to get us -- give us that money for this, this

2 freeze-thaw pilot. So if you -- if the City would help

3 with my consulting fees that I paid to Dr. Martel and

4 Dr. McCartney , I would be more than willing to give

5 them the coordinates for this $65,000.

6 Anyway, I -- again, before I stop here, I want to

7 thank the Board for listening to me yesterday. I know

8 I was lengthy, and it perhaps wasn't prudent for me to

9 do that considering -- all things considered, but I

10 know you folks were very courageous a few years ago

11 when you stood up to the open burning policy here and

12 wouldn't issue a license because of that, and I applaud

13 you for that. And I guess with that in mind, that's

14 what prompted me to bring this composting forward

15 because I see it as a significant -- you know, if we

16 can reduce what goes to the landfill by half, I think

17 that's a major step forward. And it's not, it's not

18 that the stuff needs to be taken to the dump because

19 it's not. It's a resource. It's something that can

20 benefit our community, and if we can do it economically

21 without costing us anything and we're getting benefit

22 from it, it's a no- brainer , in my mind.

23 Anyway, the economic argument for composting in

24 the Arctic is well supported by our climate, by our

25 climate and other temperature-sensitive technologies

26 such as freeze-thaw. We are blessed with this climate.

425

1 It's going to -- it facilitates this stuff; it makes it

2 possible where the south are struggling. Mind you, the

3 south are embarking on a lot of efforts to reduce their

4 waste stream.

5 So, I don't think anybody wants more of this, and

6 you know what the outcome is going to be, but we can

7 make -- we can choose the green alternative, you know.

8 I went over this yesterday; I'm not going to repeat it.

9 This is important to me. I think it's -- we need

10 to give our children some hope, and they need to have

11 some hope for their future, and we're not doing a very

12 good job providing for our children's future.

13 Anyway, thank you very much. I really appreciate

14 this opportunity to address you folks, and I trust your

15 good judgement. Thank you very much.

16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Jim. Is this part of

17 your closing remarks as well?

18 MR . LITTLE: Yes, it's my closing remarks.

19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.

20 MR . LITTLE: So if there's questions, it's up --

21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Jim.

22 Open the floor for questions. Applicants, start

23 with applicant, do you have a question to the

24 presentation?

25 MR . HALL: Mark Hall for the City of Iqaluit.

26 Mr. Chair, respectfully, could we request a short

426

1 break? We need to consult with respect to responding

2 to this, if you would, thank you.

3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, yes. We'll take a

4 five-minute break.

5 (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED AT 10:45 A.M.)

6 (PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT 11:00 A.M.)

7 THE CHAIRMAN: (No translation) Is the

8 translation working?

9 Okay. The applicants group were supposed to

10 proceed with the questions at this time for the Jim

11 Little, Bill MacKenzie Humanitarian Society

12 application.

13 MR . BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Geoff Baker

14 with the City of Iqaluit.

15 I'd like to thank Mr. Little for his presentation

16 and his comments. I think at this point we would

17 request that a copy of the presentation be provided to

18 the Board and, in turn, to the City so we can take it

19 away and actually formalise a written response. He's

20 proposing some extensive changes to the design. Thank

21 you.

22 THE CHAIRMAN: Dionne?

23 MS. FILIATRAULT : Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

24 As far as the submission of the presentation, we

25 can mark that as Exhibit 23, and I have to confer with

26 Bill regarding follow-up written comments.

427

1 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

2 EXHIBIT 23:

3 BILL MACKENZIE HUMANITARIAN SOCIETY

4 PRESENTATION, ELECTRONIC COPY

5 THE CHAIRMAN: Do you have any more questions or

6 comments, applicants?

7 MR . BAKER: Geoff Baker, City of Iqaluit.

8 No, no further comments. Thank you.

9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

10 Is there any question or comments from interested

11 parties? DIAND ? The microphone should work.

12 COMMENTS BY DIAND ON BILL MACKENZIE HUMANITARIAN

13 SOCIETY PRESENTATION

14 MR . WEBBER: Excuse me, Mr. Chair. It's Lee

15 Webber, Justice Canada. If you don't mind, I'm going

16 to use the mike here at the table, simply because I've

17 got some papers to juggle and that will be difficult to

18 do if I'm standing up at the microphone that's behind

19 us.

20 Mr. Little in this morning's presentation, as in

21 his presentation yesterday -- excuse me -- made

22 reference to composting. There was also a reference at

23 the tag end of Mr. Little's presentation today to the

24 past history with the issue of burning, and these

25 references prompt me to make an observation. I don't

26 have a particular definite, final position to urge upon

428

1 the board or Mr. Little. At this point, I'd like to

2 make an observation and leave it with the Board for

3 their consideration and, of course, give Mr. Little a

4 chance to respond to it.

5 It seems to me that where matters such as

6 composting are concerned, that there is an issue as to

7 whether it be really -- whether it would really be

8 appropriate for the Board to include any license

9 conditions dealing with the matter. The Board will

10 recall that yesterday I asked Mr. Little if he was

11 looking for license conditions, and Mr. Little himself,

12 if I remember rightly, expressed some uncertainty on

13 that score.

14 This is one of those situations where, yes, the

15 foot bone is connected to the shin bone and the shin

16 bone is connected to the knee bone. Everything is

17 connected to everything else, but the Board, if you

18 will, is in the position of being the foot doctor.

19 That's the board's piece of the total environment or

20 the total environmental picture that it deals with.

21 And admittedly, the board's piece does interact with

22 other pieces, but there is some sort of a perimeter to,

23 a boundary upon the board's jurisdiction.

24 Maybe another way of stating the same concept is

25 to imagine the gate at the town dump and to say, yes,

26 what goes on in the dump definitely has the prospect of

429

1 affecting the quality of waters, definitely has the

2 prospect of having an impact on waters, of resulting in

3 deposit into waters. Deposit of waste into waters

4 really is the touchstone here, though. And when we're

5 on the outside of the dump at the gate, the question

6 is, how far back from that gate is it proper for the --

7 is it appropriate for the Board to go in its

8 regulating? Do we back up to the point where the

9 consumer is producing or might be producing waste? Do

10 we back up to some point between that and the gate of

11 the dump?

12 Bringing it more directly back to the issue of

13 composting, is that sort of alternative really an

14 appropriate matter for the imposition of a condition by

15 the Board?

16 The City is coming before the Board with a certain

17 set of proposals to deal with waste, including the

18 transmission of materials to the, to the dump. Yes,

19 the issue of composting or the possibility of

20 composting may be a worthwhile alternative for the City

21 to consider. It is certainly valuable that Mr. Little

22 is raising that question and others for consideration

23 by the Board and by the City, but is it appropriate for

24 the Board to, in a sense, micromanage and say

25 notwithstanding the proposals which the City has

26 brought forward, here is another idea, here is another

430

1 mechanism which the City -- how would the condition

2 look, which the City should investigate, which the City

3 must investigate, which the City must practice? To me,

4 that has the look of micromanaging , and it also holds

5 the prospect of the Board's, perhaps, stepping outside

6 its jurisdiction.

7 In all these matters, the touchstone ultimately

8 has to be the provisions of the land claim agreement

9 and the provisions of the act, the Nunavut Waters and

10 Nunavut Service Rights Tribunal Act, and I draw the

11 board's attention in particular to three provisions.

12 One is 12(1)(b), the second is 57(a), and the third is

13 70(1). I don't think there's, there's really a need to

14 go into a long reading of those provisions, I'll just

15 draw attention more particularly 57(a): "The Board may

16 not issue a license unless the applicant satisfies the

17 Board that: (a) any waste produced by the pertinent

18 undertaking will be treated and disposed of in a manner

19 that is appropriate for the maintenance of the water

20 quality standards," and so on.

21 One of the ultimate questions for the Board, I

22 think, is whether the plans put forward by the City

23 would, indeed, meet that criterion and satisfy that

24 criterion. There may be other plans, there may be

25 other mechanisms, the ones that Mr. Little has

26 proposed, others that are imaginable or may be imagined

431

1 in the future. There may be other mechanisms that

2 would also comply with that criterion. There may be

3 other mechanisms which the City will want to

4 investigate in the future, but I would suggest that

5 this is perhaps a matter that --

6 THE CHAIRMAN: The translation's not working at

7 the moment. Something stopped.

8 Okay, it's working now. Go ahead.

9 MR . WEBBER: Okay, thank you. There are these,

10 these other proposals that the City may want to, want

11 to look into, but these may be matters that are best

12 left to the City. It is certainly, as I say, very

13 valuable that Mr. Little is, is injecting these

14 thoughts into the debate at this point, but in a sense,

15 perhaps, that's as far as it should go where the

16 current Board proceedings are concerned. The matters

17 having been raised, perhaps it would be more

18 appropriate to omit anything about, for example,

19 composting from the license. Thank you.

20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Lee Webber.

21 Jim, you have a response?

22 MR . LITTLE: I appreciate your comments. You're

23 obviously a lawyer. Let's -- I don't think I made any

24 recommendations yesterday regarding composting, and

25 could we just kind of look at composting, that

26 presentation yesterday, as sort of an educational

432

1 presentation to shed light on the resources that are

2 actually in the waste stream, nothing else? Just

3 include it -- just consider it to be that. And I hope

4 that I did provide a degree of education.

5 Today, now, on the other hand, this presentation

6 that I made that is addressing some of the significant

7 issues, in particular, the leachate from the landfill

8 that is a problem with or without composting; the

9 lagoon, the condition of the lagoon, its future,

10 definitely significantly impacts water quality; and the

11 operation of the, of the existing plant, the phase one.

12 What we're proposing here is far more efficient

13 and has far less damage to the environment. The

14 potential for accidents is reduced. The quality of the

15 end product, the dewatered , stabilised sludge that

16 comes out of a freeze-thaw bed, is more appropriate for

17 the safe disposal in a landfill after the freeze-thaw

18 bed. It is not appropriate -- I can produce a text

19 here, a quote from a textbook that's taught at the

20 University of Alberta that was provided by Dr. Martel

21 talking about the disposal of unstabilised ,

22 un- dewatered sludge in landfills. It's not

23 recommended.

24 Now, we got no laws up here. We're working on

25 guidelines. We can, you know, basically do what we --

26 we do what we can get away with a lot of times. But

433

1 these guidelines make it very clear that unstabilised

2 sludge should not be landfilled , and this process that

3 I'm proposing addresses that, and that's what I would

4 like the Board to look at, those things. The

5 ingredients in the proposal, the presentation I made

6 today, that is the significant recommendations that I

7 think our society would like to make.

8 And like I say, you know, you know, you look at it

9 like a winter coat. Does a winter coat, does it keep

10 the heat in or the cold out? It doesn't really matter

11 as long as we, you know, get to the same point, as long

12 as we get to the right place, and that's where we need

13 to go. So, I hope I've responded.

14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Jim.

15 Does INAC have further additional questions or

16 comments?

17 MR . WEBBER: Just a final note that, I mean, I

18 certainly appreciate what Mr. Little is saying. I

19 appreciate his clarification that yesterday's

20 presentation should be regarded as an educational

21 matter. Again, I would just want to issue a general

22 caution or urging to the Board that we not -- that the

23 license not focus on, not deal with matters that have,

24 at best, a peripheral or a questionable connection with

25 waters. Thank you.

26 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

434

1 Jim Little.

2 MR . LITTLE: Just two points that I want to make

3 in that regard. Ten years from now our roadways, the

4 sides of our roads, our hillsides, all our -- you know,

5 all the playgrounds where we have -- that accumulates

6 dog manure -- San Francisco figures four percent of

7 their waste stream is dog manure, four percent. We've

8 got a lot of dogs up here, I don't know what it is.

9 And none of it goes to landfill. It all freeze-thaws,

10 it all vaporises , and it turns to dust and it blows

11 around in our environment. Now, that is inevitably

12 going to end up in the water.

13 I mean, it's -- so, it could -- an argument could

14 be made, if we could create green areas all around this

15 city, that it's going to take care of that. It's going

16 to provide a sponge, if you will, for the dog manure

17 that's in our environment now. And God knows how many

18 sicknesses have been caused by that. So, it's going to

19 end up in the water, so it is a water issue.

20 And the same thing, if you remove the organic

21 waste out of the landfill, and I can show this -- I'm

22 quoting again -- you remove organic waste out of the

23 landfill, it makes the handling of the rest of the

24 waste stream significantly easier. There's no mess,

25 there's no smell, there's no -- and it makes removing

26 hazardous waste and addressing other issues in the

435

1 landfill, like hazardous waste, a lot easier. These

2 are not benefits that I've dreamt up. But I think that

3 in itself is also a connection that can be made to

4 composting.

5 So, I mean, I take exception to what you're

6 saying. I appreciate it. I don't want to overburden

7 the Board, but I think these points need to be made,

8 and I'm not going to let them pass, so I'm sorry.

9 MR . CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Jim.

10 INAC ?

11 MR . WEBBER: I do not take exception to --

12 MR . CHAIRMAN: Please state your name for the

13 record before you speak.

14 MR . WEBBER: Sorry, Lee Webber, Justice Canada.

15 I do not take exception to Mr. Little's points. I

16 certainly concede the point that Mr. Little has just

17 made that these things are connected. I do just want

18 to keep in play the notion that at some point a line

19 does have to be drawn between those things which have a

20 reasonably, a relevantly, a suitably direct impact on

21 the quality of waters or potential impact on the

22 quality of waters and those things whose impact or

23 potential impact is indirect, is more in the

24 speculative realm, and so on.

25 In a sense, Mr. Little and I are making exactly

26 the same point: Everything is connected. My

436

1 subsidiary point, though, is that since everything is

2 connected and since the Board has only one piece of the

3 regulatory puzzle, a line does have to be drawn at some

4 point. Thank you.

5 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any more? Okay, thank

6 you, INAC .

7 Is there any more question from interested

8 parties? Okay, thank you. Is there any more question

9 or comments from other interested parties? No

10 response.

11 So, is -- the Water Board had a question?

12 COMMENTS BY THE WATER BOARD STAFF:

13 MR . TILLEMAN : Mr. Chairman, I just want to make

14 sure that -- Mr. Webber can respond to this if he

15 wishes -- that the presentation by Mr. Little referring

16 to waste in whatever form it did refer to, it is not

17 outside of the definition of waste as defined by the

18 Nunavut waters legislation. I want to make that point,

19 and if Mr. Webber wishes to disagree with that, he can

20 read the section and come back and disagree with it.

21 That's my only comment, and I'll just leave it at that,

22 sir.

23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

24 So, Jim, thank you for your presentation.

25 MR . LITTLE: Thank you very much, appreciate it.

26 And one more comment for the City, and that's that

437

1 that presentation, that more technical presentation,

2 was very limited. I left a lot of stuff out, the

3 sequencing and a lot of information left out. And if

4 there's going to be kind of an analysis made of what I

5 said, maybe we should look at the whole picture, and

6 I'm available for that.

7 So, thank you very much for your time.

8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

9 Water Board.

10 MR . TILLEMAN : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess

11 two other little things. One is speaking of little

12 things for Mr. Little. When, when references are made

13 to other materials like Dr. Martel 's and others, and

14 it's always helpful if they come to the hearing so that

15 the applicant and others have an opportunity to look at

16 whatever they might have written and studied, and any

17 references to books and so on are helpful to have here

18 so we can actually look at those.

19 The second one, on a procedural issue, sir, is the

20 -- is that copies will be made of Mr. Little's current

21 presentation that we received today, and earlier this

22 morning the City asked to respond to that in writing.

23 If this hearing closes, as I expect that it will -- up

24 to you; you're the boss, Mr. Chairman -- then the

25 hearing is enclosed, and so there is no formal

26 opportunity to write back in and say, "Here's our

438

1 position on that," because the hearing will be over.

2 Now, clearly you can continue the dialogue, and

3 you can do all that kind of stuff, but for purposes of

4 the Board's record, when you, sir, decide the record is

5 closed, then that means the hearing is over and any

6 information that will go to the Board for making its

7 decision has then been filed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

9 INAC , do you have further question?

10 MR . WEBBER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Lee Webber,

11 Justice Canada for INAC .

12 Two things. First of all, to respond very briefly

13 to Mr. Tilleman 's reference to the definition of waste

14 in the Waters Act, a lot of words in that definition

15 and I've only had a chance to give them the most

16 cursory reading. On the strength of that cursory

17 reading, I'd be inclined to agree with Mr. Tilleman

18 that the matters that have been raised by Mr. Little,

19 the phenomena that have been raised by Mr. Little, do

20 fall within that waste. At the same time, I don't take

21 Mr. Tilleman to be saying or suggesting that as long as

22 we've got waste, the matter's necessarily one for the

23 Board's regulation. There are other criteria that have

24 to be satisfied in order for the waste or what's done

25 with the waste to be a matter for the Board's activity.

26 That's one point.

439

1 The other point, I just wanted to pick up on

2 Mr. Tilleman 's comments about the closing of the

3 hearing. One of the pending matters is this question

4 which arose yesterday about the issue of ownership of

5 the area that's proposed as an expansion area for the

6 municipal landfill, and we did leave that hanging. I

7 don't know whether the Board wants to come back to that

8 right now, but the reason I do mention it in connection

9 with Mr. Tilleman 's comment is that the current

10 punchline for DIAND is going to be that we're going to

11 be asking the Board for some time subsequent today --

12 to today to deal with that matter and get back to the

13 Board. And we would like -- first of all, we would

14 like that time; and secondly, we would like that

15 response to be included in the record of these

16 proceedings and included in the Board's deliberations

17 going forward to a decision and a license.

18 THE CHAIRMAN: Bill.

19 MR . TILLEMAN : Bill Tilleman . Thank you,

20 Mr. Chairman.

21 And so as we now proceed imminently to another

22 presentation, as I understand it, and then the closing

23 by the City, the Board will then be in a position at

24 your call, Mr. Chairman, to close the hearing. Now,

25 whether you wish to close it subject to the written

26 submissions on that point to be set at a time

440

1 determined by you is going to be your decision. And

2 so, I would expect it's good judgement to take whatever

3 break you need to before you make that final decision

4 as a Board and come back in and simply tell the parties

5 what that decision is going to be.

6 I might just quickly, if I don't get another

7 chance do this, thank the Board and the parties for a

8 good hearing. I have to be -- I have to appear as

9 counsel on another issue in court in Alberta tomorrow,

10 so I'll shortly be leaving here and wish you the best

11 of luck, and I know that the Board is well placed and

12 will make the correct decision.

13 And so, Mr. Webber, at the end of the day it's

14 whatever decision or direction the Board gives to you

15 and others who may and do have an interest in resolving

16 the question of that ownership, and also the second

17 part of that, which was the issue of the Board

18 licensing a landfill or continue or expanded landfill

19 in areas that are contaminated or, at least,

20 potentially contaminated subject to further studies,

21 was a second issue. And I would just suggest you

22 listen to the Board's directions when they come back

23 from the break and, of course, follow them.

24 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you,

25 Mr. Webber.

26 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Bill.

441

1 INAC ?

2 MR . WEBBER: Lee Webber, Justice Canada.

3 Does the Board want me to explain at this point

4 why we will be looking for that, that additional time

5 after today, or do you want me to leave that

6 explanation until a later stage in this morning's

7 proceedings?

8 THE CHAIRMAN: I'll have Bill explain to us.

9 Thank you.

10 MR . TILLEMAN : Mr. Chairman, it's Bill Tilleman .

11 My advice, to keep the continuity of the

12 proceedings and so on, is that you go to the next

13 presentation, which is I think by Siuling , then we have

14 a closing by the town, and then allow an opportunity

15 for Mr. Webber or others to present their arguments on

16 how these submissions should be done, how much time you

17 need, and so on. So if Mr. Webber wishes to do that,

18 it would also give the City and GN or others an

19 opportunity to voice their thoughts on whether or not

20 more time is needed to address those two issues, and if

21 so, how much time.

22 So, Mr. Chairman, my advice to you, sir, is that

23 if you carry forward the presentations, then just

24 before you break for the final instruction, you give

25 them an opportunity to comment. Then you break and you

26 decide what you want to do.

442

1 MR . WEBBER: Lee Webber, Justice Canada.

2 Mr. Tilleman 's proposal is certainly fine with us.

3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. We'll proceed, continue

4 with our presentations. There's one more presentation

5 -- put my glasses on -- Siuling , one of the citizens

6 from Iqaluit, presentation.

7 Okay, Siuling , before you start your presentation,

8 be sworn in first.

9 MR . TILLEMAN : Please state your name and spell

10 your last name for the record.

11 MS. HAN: Siuling Han, H-A-N.

12 SIULING HAN, SWORN.

13 PRESENTATION BY SIULING HAN:

14 MS. HAN: Okay. I will be providing my own

15 comments.

16 My name is Siuling Han. I've been in Iqaluit

17 eight years now, and with the Board's patience, and

18 their attention to the citizens' concerns is greatly

19 appreciated. These guys, the experts, were able to be

20 provided some presentation. For us Iqaluit residents,

21 we have some concerns and very strong concerns.

22 What do we, what do we really want from NWB ? It

23 would be a decision to ensure that we need to

24 improve -- I guess we hope that this will occur in a

25 manner that is financially sound in the long term, and

26 environmentally sound in the long term as well.

443

1 I'm going to shorten the presentation quite a lot,

2 but I want to say that the citizens, what we've seen,

3 we don't oppose the general approach of what's being

4 done and we're very happy to see the progress that has

5 been made, but then we do feel there are some questions

6 that have -- should be answered and some commitments

7 that should be made before this proceeds.

8 And then I think we've already -- I was going to

9 originally explain how we understood what was happening

10 with the new system, but I think it's pretty much been

11 reviewed already. And again, this diagram is just sort

12 of to help us explain where our concerns lie with the,

13 with the proposal, I guess. And our understanding is

14 that raw sewage goes onto the filter, what goes through

15 the filter goes directly to the environment, what goes

16 on the filter goes into a truck and drives to the

17 landfill where it's deposited and not treated.

18 So our concerns are more of, really, questions.

19 From what we've been told, then, the quality of what

20 passes through that filter is not better than what is

21 currently coming out of the lagoon, but it will be

22 better when the lagoon gets worse. And we are just

23 wondering, what types of problems could there be with

24 the filter and what would happen if it -- if those

25 problems occur in terms of the quality of this water

26 that's being released to the environment?

444

1 Our second question, and I alluded to this at the

2 public meeting in terms of what is going into this --

3 into our sewage sludge. We know that there are

4 potentially other chemicals that may be occurring and

5 have we -- do we need to monitor what's going into this

6 sewage stream before we start talking about dealing

7 with the sludge? And the question is, how -- is there

8 a chance that the sludge will be hazardous, and will it

9 meet all the necessary guidelines for disposal? And I

10 guess the more important question is, what will happen

11 if it doesn't? What will be done with it?

12 Our third concern: There's already been a lot of

13 discussion about the whole process of putting stuff in

14 a truck and driving through the roads to the landfill,

15 and I guess we just ask, again, to make sure that

16 there's been some consideration of the health risks for

17 -- also for the workers at either end of this process,

18 as well as people along the way. And people that --

19 currently there's a lot of salvaging of materials from

20 the dump by many people in the community, and we are

21 not sure how that will be affected, and we would just

22 like to know that.

23 The next concern is to do with runoff from the

24 landfill in relation to the sewage sludge, and I

25 understand that we've been told that they're not

26 commissioning the plant until June 1st. We've also

445

1 been told that no sewage is going into the lagoon and

2 all sewage is going to the plant now. So, I took this

3 to mean that for the next three months, the sludge

4 that's being collected will be going to the dump, and I

5 think that will be over a hundred thousand kilograms,

6 if -- the 1600 kilograms per day.

7 Anyhow, it's not a -- it's a reasonable large

8 amount. And once it gets to the landfill, I guess it

9 will go directly to the environment when it starts

10 melting and before the ditching is completed. And once

11 the ditching is completed, and we've been told that

12 it's not really known how much of what comes out of the

13 landfill will actually be caught by the ditches, so

14 there will still be, presumably, some unknown amount of

15 runoff from the sewage sludge that ends up in the

16 environment.

17 With the regard to what ends up in the ditches,

18 we've been told that is contained, and I'm not sure if

19 I'm using the right term, but what ends up in these

20 ditches will be held there until it can be treated so

21 that it can be released to the environment. But since

22 we don't know how much is coming from the landfill and

23 how much is going to get caught by the ditches, I guess

24 we don't know how long it would take before the ditches

25 are full and overflowing, and I think I would like to

26 know that since the amount of time that it will take

446

1 before we can treat it and release it safely is also

2 unknown.

3 We've talked already about the concerns of impact

4 on the landfill and adding sludge to the landfill, and

5 I go back to the question about what is the cost per

6 tonne or cost per cubic metre of expanding the landfill

7 or of building a new one, because it's clear that we

8 have to reduce what goes into the landfill by whatever

9 means we can, and that includes the sludge. And I

10 didn't take part in the solid waste discussion so I

11 won't go on about that, but the need to reduce what

12 goes into the landfill, I think, is a critical part of

13 all of these things that have been discussed.

14 And with regard to the proposed sludge management

15 plan, which right now has everything going to the

16 landfill, again, very happy with the general approach,

17 but nothing that we've seen over the last couple of

18 days has satisfied us that all of the technical options

19 or the specifics for making sure that the details are

20 the best details for this town and for the future have

21 been properly explored, and so we would like to just

22 make sure that there is an opportunity for there to be

23 a very good discussion and make sure that we have the

24 best solutions.

25 I'm just going to skip the next -- and the last

26 one, and this is just kind of a general question. So

447

1 the discharge that's going through the filter and to

2 the environment, if I understood correctly that's

3 happening 24 hours a day, and so I'm wondering at low

4 tide what that means in terms of the filtered raw

5 sewage, the sewage that's been filtered sitting out

6 there at low tide not so far from where people live or

7 park their boats. And I was wondering if we know

8 anything about how the currents move that stuff, either

9 to the causeway where people are going a lot in the

10 spring, or along the shorelines to where people live

11 and park their boats in the low tide area.

12 I'm going to skip these next two slides and just

13 go to "further concerns." Again, a lot of the concern

14 about logistics have been raised and the truck not

15 working or there being storms and stuff, but the

16 question, I guess, that I would like to know the answer

17 to is, if the sludge can't get to the landfill for

18 whatever reason, how long can it accumulate at the

19 plant, and what will happen if somehow we exceed that

20 time period of being able to accumulate it at the

21 plant? Also, if -- the sewage tanks, I guess, were

22 mentioned that are at the plant for putting stuff in,

23 if that occurs in the winter, will that mean that

24 that's it, you can only do it once and then the stuff

25 is frozen in those tanks for the rest of winter? Just

26 a question.

448

1 There's already been a lot of comments about the

2 trailer and the transport to the dump, and I'm

3 wondering if there's a plan for there to be any kind of

4 general monitoring along the route to confirm that

5 there isn't spillage and to deal with it if there is.

6 Also, if there's any kind of a major accident that

7 results in the whole trailer being dumped, is there a

8 plan for what will be done there in terms of making

9 sure the public doesn't drive through that on their way

10 to somewhere as it's being cleaned up or before it gets

11 cleaned up? And back to the filter, just wanting to

12 know, you know, can it fail, and if it does, how, and

13 what would be the consequences.

14 The next set of questions are a little bit -- and

15 I don't want to offend the town staff and just talk

16 more about some history. I mean, we've had very

17 recently some fairly major public facilities that very

18 quickly we realised we can't use because they weren't

19 done right, and basically I think that it's -- we were

20 in a situation where we trusted contractors and

21 consultants to do it right, and deliberately or

22 through -- I mean, not deliberately, but I mean through

23 whatever circumstances, things weren't done right. And

24 I mean, to me, something like building an arena without

25 making sure a geotechnical study has been done in

26 advance is one -- is just -- sort of exemplifies all of

449

1 these concerns.

2 I think it would help if there was an accountable

3 professional engineer to monitor or oversee these kinds

4 of projects closely. And because consultants and

5 contractors are only as good as the terms of reference

6 that they're given, and that means we need to have

7 people in the City who can prepare the right terms of

8 reference, who can supervise the work, and who can

9 carry on when the consultants are gone.

10 We're proposing a lot of new technology and

11 processes and facilities and in two different places in

12 town that have impacts on our environment, but once Ken

13 is gone, who is going to be looking after all of this

14 and making sure that it's working properly? Who is

15 going to be troubleshooting? And I guess I'm asking

16 the question because I heard it in a public meeting

17 that we do not currently have an engineering

18 department, and we don't have a budget to create one --

19 or a professional engineer to be in charge of these

20 things. And if -- I hope that I -- I hope that

21 information isn't correct, but this was said by the SAO

22 in a public meeting, so you can see why that concern

23 that we have is -- there's a great plan in place or

24 it's being proposed, but the plan is only as good as

25 our ability to carry it out, and based on our past

26 experience, we're a little bit worried about our

450

1 ability to carry it out.

2 In addition to that -- no, I'll go back. How do

3 you go back? Yeah, in addition to that, I guess from

4 what I understand, there is no commitment -- committed

5 budget for actual day-to-day operations. So, in terms

6 of the new specialised staff that's needed to do this

7 training, new or ongoing training, operation and

8 maintenance of the plant, and dealing with

9 contingencies -- and again, if I'm wrong on this, I

10 hope I'm wrong, but somebody can correct me -- but if

11 that is the case, what I've heard so far is just that

12 we're depending on grants for this part of running the

13 programme , and my understanding of how the grant theory

14 works is that usually it's one-time funding and usually

15 of short duration. And so, how can we feel confident

16 about the long-term prospects for this plan if we don't

17 even have any long-term commitment to running it

18 properly?

19 And I guess that leads to the greater question is,

20 if we don't have adequately qualified or trained staff

21 or a maintenance budget, what is the likelihood that we

22 will have problems with this system, and what are going

23 to be the nature and the consequences of these problems

24 or malfunctions, and do we have the capacity to respond

25 to those? And those are, I think, just some things

26 that hopefully there are good answers for, but I

451

1 haven't seen them yet in this hearing.

2 So, I'm just going to end there, and I should note

3 that there's a bunch of other stuff in the presentation

4 which is handed out which is probably less relevant now

5 that we've had information from the last couple of

6 days. And I do want to make a particular point to say

7 that I appreciate you guys, the staff, you know, being

8 here and sitting through these couple of probably

9 pretty difficult days, because I recognise you guys

10 have a really hard job and you're trying to fix

11 problems that you didn't -- that you've just inherited,

12 and you're working with constraints that somebody else

13 is defining, and I know that's very, very challenging.

14 And I'd like to think that we all, citizens and town

15 staff, we all want what's going to be best

16 environmentally, and many of the citizens who have

17 spoken here and on whose behalf I'm speaking are home

18 owners and taxpayers, so clearly we're also very

19 concerned about the budget and wise spending of money.

20 And as home owners and taxpayers, we're been here long

21 enough to have lived through some of this history of

22 problems, and so we really are very fearful of seeing

23 it repeat itself, and we hope that our input will help

24 prevent that. And, I mean, hindsight always proves,

25 you know, that if you've done something short term or

26 shortsighted, and we're hoping, you know, to work on

452

1 that.

2 And finally, I hope that you guys see these

3 interventions from the public, that you see us not as

4 an adversary but as a client and as a resource.

5 There's lot of energy going towards trying to make this

6 all happen right, and, you know, we really want to work

7 positively with you guys.

8 And finally to the Board, I just want to thank you

9 very much and the Board staff and the Board, Nunavut

10 Water Board. You have a reputation for being one of

11 the strongest boards, and the actions that you've taken

12 in this community from the recent hearings have been

13 very much admired by many of the citizens, and we thank

14 you very much for the opportunity to speak.

15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, community member.

16 Applicant, do you have a response to the

17 presentation?

18 MR . HALL: Mr. Chairman, members of the Board,

19 Mark Hall, City of Iqaluit.

20 I would like to thank the proponent for an

21 excellent presentation, and similar to the request made

22 by the City with respect to Mr. Little's presentation,

23 we're asking that it be, A, filed with the Board, and

24 referred back to the municipality for full

25 consideration and response. Thank you.

26 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

453

1 Is there any interested parties' comments or

2 questions to the presentation? Thank you.

3 How about the Water Board, does it have questions?

4 Okay, but maybe we should have a short break. Three

5 minutes.

6 (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED AT 11:50 A.M.)

7 (PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT 11:56 A.M.)

8 THE CHAIRMAN: So, we'll continue with the Water

9 Board staff person.

10 MS. FILIATRAULT : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dionne

11 Filiatrault . I apologise for the delay.

12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Open the floor for the

13 staff to have questions.

14 COMMENTS BY THE WATER BOARD STAFF ON THE HAN

15 PRESENTATION:

16 MS. FILIATRAULT : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I

17 apologise for taking -- delaying the proceedings.

18 Just a point of clarification for the benefit of

19 the presenter is that the Water Board does have a

20 public registry. It does contain a lot of historical

21 information. Things that you did -- you posed

22 questions about information about current studies and

23 the like, and there was, from my recollection, a study

24 that was done, I believe in the early ' 90s , to assess

25 the currents in Koojjesse Inlet. So there is some of

26 that information to give you some assurance that the

454

1 Water Board is working on methods to get some of that

2 information. Based in Gjoa Haven, it's hard for you to

3 access that information unless you phone our offices

4 and whatnot. So, I just wanted to make that one point.

5 And also has -- have you -- or are you familiar

6 with the qualifications of the people that are here

7 from the City? And I ask this with respect to your

8 statement that the City has no professional engineers

9 on staff, and I'm just wondering if you or if even the

10 City would like to qualify the qualifications of the

11 people that are here today speaking on your behalf.

12 MS. HAN: Yeah, like I said in the

13 presentation, I --

14 THE CHAIRMAN: Just state your name for the record

15 before you speak.

16 MS. HAN: Sorry, Siuling Han.

17 Like I said in the presentation, I'd be happy to

18 be told what people -- that that concern is not --

19 doesn't need to be a concern. I was just responding to

20 comments made by the SAO in a public meeting. So, I

21 was just looking for that clarification.

22 THE CHAIRMAN: Applicant.

23 MR . BAKER: Geoff Baker, City of Iqaluit.

24 The City does, in fact, have an engineering

25 department. You stated we didn't have an engineering

26 department. I certainly won't go into my credentials

455

1 or, you know, my personal resume. I am an engineering

2 technologist. I did go to an accredited college to

3 obtain that diploma.

4 One thing you neglected to say is that -- well,

5 you're right, we don't have a professional engineer on

6 staff; however, in the engineering department's

7 operational budget we do have $100,000 allocated for

8 professional consulting services over and above any of

9 our capital projects plan. That's it, thank you.

10 I don't know if anybody else here would like to

11 talk about their credentials at this point. Thank you.

12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

13 Siuling .

14 MS. HAN: Siuling .

15 Well, I guess -- well, I'm glad to hear that. I

16 guess I just go back to my original point about a

17 consultant is only as good as the terms of reference

18 that they're given to work under and, I guess, to have

19 some faith that the consultants are always working in

20 the best interests of the city, in the long-term best

21 interests of the city. And I'll just leave it at that,

22 thank you.

23 THE CHAIRMAN: Water Board, thank you.

24 MS. FILIATRAULT : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There's

25 no further questions.

26 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

456

1 Thank you, Siuling Han. Thank you.

2 So, it's 12:00 right now. Shall we continue with

3 Lee Webber and Bill Tilleman or the staff? Bill?

4 GENERAL COMMENTS:

5 MR . TILLEMAN : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's Bill

6 Tilleman , and, you know, we have a couple of options

7 that we could approach at the noon hour.

8 It's Bill Tilleman , Mr. Chairman, thank you.

9 And so if we suggested that what we do now is, if

10 the Board want to go to lunch, then you just go to

11 lunch, is the best answer to that. If the Board wants

12 to hear Dionne for a moment, she has couple of exhibits

13 to file, and then -- and that would be brief. And then

14 following that, you could go to the City's closing.

15 That's likely to be 30 minutes? Oh, that will be

16 very -- so that would be brief. And then you go to the

17 City, GN, and Mr. Webber to give you advice on the two

18 questions Mr. Webber posed. And so then you would take

19 a break and then come back and you give the answers

20 after lunch, is one suggestion.

21 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, thank you. Okay, let's deal

22 with the housekeeping at the moment. Staff with the

23 housekeeping stuff.

24 MS. FILIATRAULT : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just

25 wanted to go through -- there's been a lot of exhibits

26 filed this morning, and I want to make sure that

457

1 I've -- we have them all on the record for the benefit

2 of the Board to refer to.

3 One of note that -- let me start with that one

4 that I know that we are missing that was marked as an

5 exhibit yesterday was the presentation that was given

6 by Ken Johnson by the City, and I just wonder if the

7 City can confirm that it was on that disk that you gave

8 or not.

9 THE CHAIRMAN: Applicant?

10 MS. FILIATRAULT : Okay. Then I would direct the

11 Water Board staff to print out three copies of that,

12 please.

13 With the ones that have been filed this morning,

14 to reiterate, we have -- to backtrack so that we're all

15 on the same page, number 18, INAC sampling and

16 inspection reports, submitted by Jim Rogers; 19, DFO 's

17 presentation in electronic form; 20 is the guideline

18 list that was referred to by the Water Board; 21 is the

19 -- Environment Canada's recommendations and suggested

20 priority list in hard copy; 22 is Bill MacKenzie

21 Humanitarian Society's economics of composting, hard

22 copy, PowerPoint presentation; 23 is Bill MacKenzie

23 Humanitarian Society presentation in electronic copy;

24 24, Environment Canada's presentation in hard copy for

25 the waste water treatment; 25, GN DOE PowerPoint

26 presentation and closing statements and priorities by

458

1 Robert Eno ; 26 is DFO 's closing statements by Tanya

2 Gordanier ; 27, submissions to the Nunavut Water Board

3 by Siuling , public citizen; 28 is the Earth Tech

4 (Canada) Incorporated letter regarding primary

5 treatment discussion submitted by the City of Iqaluit

6 dated March 7th, 2005; 29 is a preliminary work plan

7 submission dated March 9th from the City of Iqaluit,

8 submitted by Geoff Baker; 30 is a CD-ROM containing

9 sewage lagoon west dike upgrade and Lake Geraldine

10 bathymetric survey, submitted by the City; 31 is a Trow

11 drawing regarding the raw water storage expansion,

12 it's a site plan dated December 2004; 32 is the Trow

13 Lake Geraldine current and proposed water elevations,

14 dated December 2003, by the city of -- submitted by the

15 City; and 33 is a sewage treatment planning study

16 dated -- there's 17th of July, 1997, that it can be

17 found on our Nunavut Water Board public registry that

18 we have submitted in electronic format. And.

19 If there is anything that the parties -- that I

20 have omitted, please feel free to let us know, but this

21 represents what we believe at this point to be the

22 exhaustive list of exhibits filed.

23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Water Board staff.

24 EXHIBIT 20:

25 GUIDELINE LIST

26

459

1 EXHIBIT 21:

2 ENVIRONMENT CANADA RECOMMENDATIONS &

3 SUGGESTED PRIORITY LIST, HARD COPY

4 EXHIBIT 22:

5 BILL MACKENZIE HUMANITARIAN SOCIETY ECONOMICS

6 OF COMPOSTING POWERPOINT PRESENTATION, HARD

7 COPY

8 EXHIBIT 24:

9 ENVIRONMENT CANADA PRESENTATION ON WASTE

10 WATER TREATMENT, HARD COPY

11 EXHIBIT 25:

12 GN DOE POWERPOINT PRESENTATION, CLOSING

13 STATEMENT, AND PRIORITIES, DATED 9 MARCH 2006

14 EXHIBIT 26:

15 DFO CLOSING STATEMENT

16 EXHIBIT 27:

17 SUBMISSION TO THE NUNAVUT WATER BOARD BY

18 SIULING HAN

19 EXHIBIT 28:

20 EARTH TECH (CANADA) REPORT REGARDING PHASE

21 ONE PRIMARY TREATMENT DISCUSSION, DATED

22 7 MARCH 2005

23 EXHIBIT 29:

24 PRELIMINARY WORK PLAN SUBMISSION DATED

25 9 MARCH 2006

26

460

1 EXHIBIT 30:

2 SEWAGE LAGOON, LAKE GERALDINE BATHYMETRIC

3 STUDY AND WEST DIKE UPGRADE, DATED

4 9 MARCH 2006, ELECTRONIC COPY

5 EXHIBIT 31:

6 TROW ASSOCIATES RAW WATER STORAGE EXPANSION

7 SITE PLAN, DATED DECEMBER 2004

8 EXHIBIT 32:

9 TROW ASSOCIATES LAKE GERALDINE CURRENT AND

10 PROPOSED WATER ELEVATIONS, DATED

11 DECEMBER 2003

12 THE CHAIRMAN: So we should continue with the

13 closing remark from applicant.

14 CLOSING STATEMENT BY THE CITY OF IQALUIT:

15 MR . HALL: Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of

16 the Board. Mark Hall from the City of Iqaluit.

17 The City of Iqaluit greatly appreciates the

18 assistance of the Board, intervenors , and members of

19 the public in the presentations of materials and

20 evidence before this Board. The City is fully

21 committed to continue on a course of responsible

22 resource management and compliance with the regulatory

23 standards as prescribed by the federal and territorial

24 regulators, within the confines of human resource and

25 monetary considerations.

26 With respect to the work plan which is exhibit

461

1 number 29, the City is pleased to submit our response

2 and preliminary time lines for attending to the myriad

3 of issues contained in this document. However, and

4 respectfully, for record, many of the items contained

5 within this document contain monetary connotations for

6 which the City staff will require more detailed

7 discussion, funding, identification, and the consent of

8 city council before proceeding. We respectfully ask

9 that this document be received by the Board as a

10 document of intent, and we request permission of the

11 Board to finalise this document and submit the same to

12 the Board within two weeks from the conclusion of the

13 hearings.

14 In summary, the City is committed to the following

15 actions as referred to during the Board deliberations,

16 and I refer specifically to: expansion of the raw

17 water, raw water facility during the summer of 2006; a

18 new treated water storage tank during the summer 2006;

19 develop a monitoring protocol for Lake Geraldine,

20 again, during summer of 2006; leachate monitoring and

21 capture, landfill, et cetera, summer 2006; and upgrade

22 of the operation and maintenance manual for the

23 landfill by December of 2006; sewage lagoon repairs

24 during the summer of 2006; sludge management plan and

25 pilot project, which is ongoing, DSI for sewage lagoon

26 prior to October 2006; DSR of Lake Geraldine following

462

1 construction upgrades; include chlorinated paraffins in

2 sampling of the sewage lagoon waste in addition to the

3 other materials to be sampled; implement mitigation

4 measures during the dam expansion sampling; SNP

5 stations; and sampling protocol for sludge management

6 plan.

7 Thank you, Mr. Chair. And in conclusion, thank

8 you again for the opportunity to present ourselves

9 before you, Mr. Chair and the Board. Thank you.

10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I think we should take

11 a break now.

12 MR . di PIZZO : Mr. Chair, maybe -- I think we

13 should maybe take a few minutes to let Mr. Webber

14 address the issue of the landfill expansion and

15 ownership and let the other parties present their

16 views, as well, before we take a break and resume to

17 make our closing statements. Thanks.

18 MR . CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Thank you for your

19 advice. Okay, sure, we can continue with that.

20 Lee Webber, INAC .

21 COMMENTS BY DIAND RE: LAND OWNERSHIP

22 MR . WEBBER: Lee Webber, Justice Canada for

23 DIAND .

24 As was discussed a little bit earlier, there are

25 these two questions that Mr. Tilleman raised yesterday,

26 one concerning the ownership of the proposed landfill

463

1 extension site, the other concerning the fact that

2 there is the possibility of contamination on those same

3 lands; and where each of those factors is concerned,

4 the question was whether, given that factor, it's

5 appropriate for the Board to proceed with licensing of

6 the proposed extension to the landfill.

7 I think we indicated yesterday, I myself may have

8 indicated, that I was a little bit behind the eight

9 ball when it came to coming up with a quick and

10 substantial response to that question. I don't think

11 the questions were, were anticipated by DIAND . You

12 know, I regret the fact that we didn't have the answers

13 at our fingertips, but I think, in all good faith, we

14 simply didn't anticipate those questions.

15 Unfortunately, we're in a position, DIAND and I myself

16 are in a position where to get the Board an adequate

17 answer -- to get the Board an answer that we ourselves

18 are satisfied with, we're going to, we're going to need

19 some time. The appropriate people simply aren't

20 available in Iqaluit at this time, and it may take some

21 days to confer with them.

22 I want to advise and reassure the Board that we

23 have made the efforts that we could in the course of

24 the 24 hours, or whatever it's been, to get as much

25 input as we could, taking account of the fact, first of

26 all, that, as I say, people were absent from town, and

464

1 taking account, secondly, of the fact that we did

2 soldier on through the proceedings, all of us here

3 today, until sometime after 10 p.m. last night. I did

4 have some preliminary consultations with DIAND

5 officials by telephone, people who were out of town,

6 but this was very much in the nature of on-the-fly

7 conversations.

8 So, the situation we find ourselves in here and

9 now is that we, DIAND , I myself, would like a chance to

10 consult with the appropriate DIAND officials, the folks

11 who are familiar with the ins and outs of the issues

12 touched upon by Mr. Tilleman 's questions. I would also

13 like a chance to contact the people in the Department

14 of Justice who I believe have been assisting DIAND with

15 respect to this cluster of issues in recent years.

16 Unfortunately, again, I am not the person who has

17 been providing advice to the Nunavut office in DIAND

18 for the last while. As the Board may know, my

19 colleague Norm Cavanaugh has been taken ill, and he is

20 the person who I believe may have some of the DOJ

21 history on this matter. It will take some time for me

22 to contact him and perhaps others. Again, they're out

23 of the jurisdiction at this time.

24 Those are the reasons why I would ask for the

25 Board's indulgence in granting us some time subsequent

26 to today to have those in-house consultations and get

465

1 back to the Board in writing with questions -- with

2 answers to the questions that Mr. Tilleman has posed.

3 If the Board is agreeable to the proposal in general

4 terms to allow some time after today, I would request

5 -- I would request two weeks in which to get back to

6 the Board.

7 I'm aware of the fact that a lot of the people

8 concerned specifically -- or including a lot of the

9 people on the Board, the Board staff, are working with

10 very tight time schedules, especially given the fact

11 that other matters are scheduled to be dealt with in

12 the coming weeks. I'm aware of that fact and, at the

13 same time, I would much rather be in the position of

14 having two weeks' grace from the Board and then getting

15 back to the Board in less than two weeks, if we can,

16 rather than being in the position of getting, say, a

17 week from the Board this time and then finding at the

18 end of a week that we really do need extra time to get

19 that responsible answer to the Board; in other words,

20 finding ourselves in a situation where at day six, we

21 have to scurry around and devote extra time to asking

22 the Board for yet a further extension on the extension.

23 So for these reasons, I am asking for time beyond

24 day, and in particular, I'm asking for two weeks.

25 Thank you.

26 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. So, yeah, is there any

466

1 more housekeeping to be done? No? Okay, thank you.

2 Time is running out. So anyway, but we still have

3 full day, anyway, but for something else as well. So

4 at the moment, is there any comments to Lee Webber's?

5 MS. PETERSON: Mr. Chairman, it's Katherine

6 Peterson speaking.

7 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead, Peterson.

8 COMMENTS BY THE CITY OF IQALUIT RE: LAND OWNERSHIP:

9 MS. PETERSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I

10 certainly appreciate the position that Mr. Webber is

11 in. I just want to clarify, if I can, in a very quick

12 fashion the position of the applicant on these two

13 issues and my understanding of them.

14 As I understand the questions, they are due to the

15 fact that there is some issue about the ownership of

16 the expansion landfill area and the fact that there's

17 some possibility of sublevel contamination, somehow

18 create a barrier or an impediment to the Board issuing

19 a license sought by the applicant in this matter. And

20 the City's position on this, I think, quite simply is,

21 no, that neither of those questions present an

22 impediment to the Board's consideration of the

23 application or, indeed, issuance of a license. They

24 don't affect the jurisdiction of the Board, and I'll

25 just outline very briefly why that's the case.

26 We don't have a situation where the proposed land,

467

1 dealing with the ownership issue firstly, where the

2 proposed land is the subject of any controversy by the

3 use or occupation of it. There may be some controversy

4 about who ultimately has some positive authority over

5 it, who can transfer it, who has ownership rights, but

6 nobody is coming to the Board saying the City can't

7 occupy or use that land. If that were the case, that

8 would be a different question altogether, but it's not

9 the case. So there's no impediment arising out of a

10 sort of esoteric argument about ownership that is a

11 barrier to the Board's consideration of the City's

12 application in this regard. Ultimately, that ownership

13 will be sorted out, but it doesn't affect the granting

14 of a license because no one is objecting to the use or

15 occupation of the land.

16 Secondly, with respect to any sublevel

17 contamination, I think the position that's been put

18 very fairly by the Government of Nunavut , and I think

19 the City endorses the position is as follows: The City

20 can't accept liability for pre-existing contamination

21 about which it had no responsibility and limited

22 knowledge and which may have occurred as a result of

23 the occupation of the lands by others. That being

24 said, the City does have a responsibility that if it

25 uncovers contaminations through its own, the City's own

26 operations, then it has a responsibility to deal with

468

1 that and potentially some liability if it doesn't deal

2 with the uncovered or exposed contamination. I think

3 that's a given. And I don't think any sublevel

4 contamination, again, is a barrier or an impediment to

5 the Board considering the license application or,

6 indeed, granting it or considering it on its merits.

7 It may give rise to the Board considering certain

8 conditions surrounding those facts, but the

9 consideration of the license application, per se, is

10 not affected, I would say, by that.

11 Finally, if the Board is inclined to receive

12 further written material from the Department of Justice

13 or other parties on these issues, the City would just

14 like an opportunity to see and respond and be involved

15 in that process as well. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

17 Okay, any comment from interested parties? Lee?

18 COMMENTS BY DIAND RE: LAND OWNERSHIP:

19 MR . WEBBER: I just want to point out that --

20 Lee Webber, Justice Canada -- if the, if the Board is

21 going to consider this request over lunchtime, they may

22 also want to consider the City's request, previously

23 stated, regarding the opportunity to see hard copies of

24 the last two presentations and provide some sort of

25 follow-up on those presentations subsequent to today's

26 date. They are somewhat analogous requests, and again,

469

1 maybe the Board wants to deal with all of those or both

2 of those requests, consider both of those requests over

3 the lunch hour. Thank you.

4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

5 Can I have advice from the staff for this issue at

6 the moment?

7 MR . WEBBER: Excuse me, Mr. Chair? Excuse me,

8 Mr. Chair?

9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Lee. You want to

10 continue.

11 MR . WEBBER: One other thing I should have added

12 in the wake of Ms. Peterson's comment. I certainly

13 appreciate that that is Ms. Peterson's and the City's

14 position. I would just point out that DIAND is not, is

15 not yet prepared to put a tick mark next to that

16 position and say that we agree with it, and it's to

17 consider that possible position and others, to consider

18 the questions that Mr. Tilleman has raised, consider

19 them fully, it's for those reasons that we would like

20 the extension beyond today's date. Thank you.

21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Lee.

22 Is there any comments to be made from GN staff

23 or -- no? Thank you.

24 Okay, we can -- oh, okay. John Daw.

25 MR . DAW QUESTIONS DIAND RE: LAND OWNERSHIP:

26 MR . DAW: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank

470

1 you, my name is John Daw.

2 My question is for DIAND . I was gathering the

3 impression all along that there were really no

4 objections to use and occupancy of the land, as far as

5 ownership, per se, is concerned. Am I now gathering,

6 Mr. Webber, that you're not prepared to say that at the

7 moment, that there may indeed be some objections on

8 DIAND 's part to actual use of that property for the

9 proposed purpose?

10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

11 Lee?

12 MR . WEBBER: Lee Webber Justice Canada. How do

13 I answer that? I would like to, I would like to avoid

14 any kind of an answer that would anticipate what

15 DIAND 's ultimate response would be. It may be that we

16 have no, no objections of the sort that Mr. Daw has

17 referred to. At this point, I just have not had a

18 chance to canvas this issue with my client, and

19 accordingly, I'm not able to take any kind of concluded

20 position on the questions raised by Mr. Tilleman .

21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you.

22 I think we are getting, getting to the end at the

23 moment. We might as well -- if there's no -- if

24 there's not any more comment to be made from the floor,

25 we might as well -- the Water Board have a closing

26 remark on this. Does the Water Board staff have any --

471

1 if there's no more housekeeping matter to be made.

2 MS. FILIATRAULT : No, Mr. Chairman, there's no

3 further housekeeping, and we're done.

4 THE CHAIRMAN: All right.

5 MS. PETERSON: Mr. Chairman, and I promise to be

6 very brief because I know people need a break.

7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you.

8 COMMENTS BY THE CITY OF IQALUIT RE: LAND OWNERSHIP:

9 MS. PETERSON: Mr. Chairman, I just want to

10 indicate for the record that the applicant would be

11 very troubled if the -- if DIAND were to take the

12 position and, indeed, is somewhat troubled that it's

13 not taking a position at this point about use and

14 occupancy of the land with respect to the expanded

15 landfill. That's a fundamental aspect of this

16 application, and if there was a problem about that,

17 there's some onus on the intervenor to provide some

18 notice of the fact that that , indeed, is an issue. And

19 if they haven't provided that in a definitive fashion

20 right now, there is some considerable difficulty with

21 them doing so after the closure of the hearing.

22 So, I wanted to put that on the record. I

23 understand completely the position that Mr. Webber is

24 in and that he wants to be fully advised and instructed

25 by his client, and I do understand that, but the nature

26 of this particular question is very fundamental to this

472

1 aspect of the license application, and for that reason

2 I'd like to voice that concern at this point.

3 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

4 Lee Webber.

5 MR . WEBBER: Lee Webber, Justice Canada.

6 I appreciate that it is fundamental, and it is

7 precisely because we do appreciate the importance of

8 the questions, the importance of the questions as posed

9 by Mr. Tilleman , that we want to make sure that we can

10 give the best answer possible, the answer that is as

11 complete as possible, the answer in which we ourselves

12 have fullest confidence.

13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

14 I think I'm ready to go ahead with my closing

15 remark unless there is anything to be dealt with.

16 Applicant, go ahead.

17 GENERAL COMMENTS:

18 MR . HALL: Mr. Chair, members of the Board,

19 Mark Hall, City of Iqaluit.

20 Again, this may be a procedural matter, but is the

21 Board to rule with respect to the ability of the City

22 to respond to the last two presentations that were made

23 before this Board within a period of two weeks before

24 closing? Thank you.

25 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead, Dionne.

26 MS. FILIATRAULT : Mr. Chairman, I would respectfully

473

1 request that it may be appropriate for the Board to

2 take a break and reconvene after lunch, because I

3 believe there are three questions to the Board at this

4 point that need to be answered in their closing remarks

5 so that direction can be given to the parties and the

6 applicant.

7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Yeah, we shall take a

8 break for lunch. If there is no objection, I would

9 like to call -- come back here by 1:30. Okay, we'll

10 all come back here at 1:30.

11 Okay, GN wish to speak up.

12 MR . SITLAND : Doug Sitland , Department of

13 Community Government and Services, Mr. Chairman.

14 Not an objection, my only concern is because the

15 issue of land ownership does certainly affect the

16 Government of Nunavut , I have another meeting at 2:30

17 for which I cannot break. It's in the office of the

18 Auditor General, so, thank you, Mr. Chairman.

19 THE CHAIRMAN: Would there be -- we'll come back

20 at 1:30, so is one hour too short for you? Okay, we'll

21 come back at 1:30. Thank you.

22 (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED AT 12:32 P.M.)

23 (PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT 1:41 P.M.)

24 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Let's proceed with the

25 continuation of the meeting.

26 Before we proceed, Dionne -- I would like to give

474

1 Dionne the opportunity for a housekeeping issue.

2 MS. FILIATRAULT : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would

3 like to make one point of clarification. On the list

4 of exhibits, the final exhibit that was entered as

5 Exhibit 33 I would propose to remove as an exhibit

6 because it was already entered in as Exhibit 17, so I

7 just want to make people aware of that. Thank you,

8 Mr. Chairman.

9 CLOSING STATEMENT BY THE NUNAVUT WATER BOARD:

10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I'm ready to go ahead

11 with our closing remark. Okay.

12 Thank you for coming back to this room again.

13 The Board has decided to adjourn the hearing, keep the

14 record open to allow submission from all interested

15 parties on the matter of the solid waste site expansion

16 on a known and contaminated site as posted by

17 Mr. Webber. That's item one.

18 Item two, by the City of Iqaluit to review the

19 submission by Mr. Little and Ms. Han and respond to the

20 Board.

21 Item 3, by the City of Iqaluit to revise the work

22 plan, Exhibit 29.

23 Item 4, information on -- of fiscal information

24 requested by NWB staff Dionne.

25 The Board request all submission to be filed on

26 March 25, 2006, before the Board, subject to the

475

1 availability of the -- of this, and for the Board to

2 recommence to conclude on the issue of the ownership of

3 the landfill. We strongly request the parties to work

4 together to possibly file a joint submission. This

5 hearing is now adjourned.

6 Lee Webber.

7 GENERAL COMMENTS:

8 MR . WEBBER: Lee Webber, Justice Canada.

9 Thank you, Mr. Chair, for that ruling and for

10 allowing us the time. Just before we adjourn for the

11 day, I did want to ask for the Board's indulgence.

12 DIAND has one very, very brief statement, one line,

13 that it would like to add to the closing remarks that

14 Mr. Rogers made yesterday. I realise that the City has

15 already made its closing remarks. What I would

16 suggest, again, if the Board is agreeable, perhaps the

17 Board could ask the City if the City has any objection

18 to my making the one statement that I do have in mind

19 to make. If the City doesn't have any objection to my

20 going ahead and making that one statement, perhaps I

21 could make the statement, and then the City would have

22 an opportunity to reply. I expect that all of this, my

23 statement, any reply from the City, it would all be

24 very brief.

25 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

26 Does the City applicant have objection to

476

1 Mr. Webber's request?

2 MR . BAKER: Geoff Baker, City of Iqaluit. No,

3 no objection. Thank you.

4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

5 Mr. Webber.

6 MR . WEBBER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The one

7 thing that I wanted to say was that DIAND supports

8 entirely and enthusiastically Environment Canada's

9 proposal that the Board circulate a draft license to

10 the applicant and the interested parties, that all

11 concerned have a chance to review and comment on that

12 draft before the Board takes in those comments, reviews

13 those comments, and finalises the license.

14 That was my additional comment. Thank you.

15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

16 Can I have advice for this, Dionne?

17 MS. FILIATRAULT : Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess the

18 Board can take Mr. Webber's consideration into account

19 the same way that they will deliberate all other issues

20 before the Board. And if the Board decides, I suppose

21 during the same adjournment they could get back to the

22 parties on whether or not they plan to proceed in that

23 direction. But ultimately, I will leave it to the

24 Board's decision to make, and if they decide otherwise,

25 they'll let the parties know.

26 MR . CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

477

1 Applicant?

2 MR . HALL: Mr. Chairman, members of the Board,

3 Mark Hall, City of Iqaluit.

4 The City endorses Mr. Webber's suggestion through

5 INAC Canada for circulation of a draft license, with

6 whatever appropriate conditions, for comment. Thank

7 you.

8 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

9 So as I said, this hearing is now adjourned, but

10 before we depart from this room, I'd like to call the

11 Board member Guy Kakkiarniun to say a closing prayer at

12 this time for this hearing.

13 Guy Kakkiarniun .

14 (PRAYER)

15 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

16 One last -- I'd like to say one last thank you to

17 the interpreters. Thank you very much for the

18 interpreters as well on the issue to communicate.

19 Thank you.

20 (PROCEEDINGS CONCLUDED AT 1:53 P.M.)

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1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION

2

3 I, the undersigned, hereby state that the

4 foregoing pages 394 through 477 were taken down by me

5 in shorthand and transcribed to the best of my skill

6 and ability.

7 DATED at the City of Calgary, Province of Alberta,

8 this 13th day of March, A.D. 2006.

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10

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12 Diane Hermann, RPR

13 Court Reporter

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479

1 EXHIBITS

2 EXHIBIT 19:

3 DFO PRESENTATION, ELECTRONIC COPY.........404

4 EXHIBIT 20:

5 GUIDELINE LIST............................458

6 EXHIBIT 21:

7 ENVIRONMENT CANADA RECOMMENDATIONS &

8 SUGGESTED PRIORITY LIST, HARD COPY........459

9 EXHIBIT 22:

10 BILL MACKENZIE HUMANITARIAN SOCIETY ECONOMICS

11 OF COMPOSTING POWERPOINT PRESENTATION, HARD

12 COPY......................................459

13 EXHIBIT 23:

14 BILL MACKENZIE HUMANITARIAN SOCIETY

15 PRESENTATION, ELECTRONIC COPY.............427

16 EXHIBIT 24:

17 ENVIRONMENT CANADA PRESENTATION ON WASTE

18 WATER TREATMENT, HARD COPY................459

19 EXHIBIT 25:

20 GN DOE POWERPOINT PRESENTATION, CLOSING

21 STATEMENT, AND PRIORITIES, DATED.

22 9 MARCH 2006..............................459

23 EXHIBIT 26:

24 DFO CLOSING STATEMENT.....................459

25

26

480

1 EXHIBIT 27:

2 SUBMISSION TO THE NUNAVUT WATER BOARD BY

3 SIULING HAN...............................459

4

5 EXHIBIT 28:

6 EARTH TECH (CANADA) REPORT REGARDING PHASE

7 ONE PRIMARY TREATMENT DISCUSSION, DATED

8 7 MARCH 2005..............................459

9

10 EXHIBIT 29:

11 PRELIMINARY WORK PLAN SUBMISSION DATED

12 9 MARCH 2006..............................459

13

14 EXHIBIT 30:

15 SEWAGE LAGOON, LAKE GERALDINE BATHYMETRIC

16 STUDY AND WEST DIKE UPGRADE, DATED

17 9 MARCH 2006, ELECTRONIC COPY.............460

18

19 EXHIBIT 31:

20 TROW ASSOCIATES RAW WATER STORAGE EXPANSION

21 SITE PLAN, DATED DECEMBER 2004............460

22

23 EXHIBIT 32:

24 TROW ASSOCIATES LAKE GERALDINE CURRENT AND

25 PROPOSED WATER ELEVATIONS, DATED

26 DECEMBER 2003.............................460